ST Space chase/ Crait plan discussion thread

Yes. I thought about both the possibilities too.

The explanation that is commonly used is that Hux felt so confident is his superiority that he didn't find the need to elaborate any plan. I think I can buy it. Do I like it? Hell no. Especially since Hux looked very frustrated at the idea of waiting.

 

I can't buy it with Hux because TLJ didn't show that. Hux didn't have a moment in which he thinks about how they could destroy the Resistance more quickly but he's enjoying this drag of a chase, so he'd rather wait 17 hours. There aren't any moments in which he engages with the Resistance so he can soak up their feelings of fear and hopelessness and mock them. He's not playing a psychological game with them.

Instead, the film shows Hux astounded that the FO has "all this" (he motions around him) and can't destroy three puny Resistance ships.

Basically Hux being an idiot because he's a bad guy, is the explanation. And it's both because TLJ is plot driven and because it is deliberately showing all the villain characters as idiots to make a point about villainy. In other words, characters are primarily servants of the plot and of the film's messaging.

 

Hux kept saying they had the Resistance tied to the end of a string. This Chase was the FO victory lap. No one else in the galaxy opposed them. Why act out and look panicked about winning? You had like 20 battleships chasing one empty cruiser. The game was up, why act differently? Hux and the entire FO clearly see themselves are stronger, smarter and superior in every way - so they walk the walk.

And it failed spectacularly

 

I didn't mind this, but every time the movie cut back to the slow moving chase, I kept wanting to say "Meanwhile in another movie" ala MST3K.


I STILL LOVED THE MOVIE YOU GUYS

 

Hux bemoaning how they have to wait and showing frustration with that contradicts your argument, @Cantina Regular

 

His momentary frustration didn’t change his demeanor. They all still knew it was only a matter of time

 

Yes, Hux was frustrated to have to wait, but he realised that he only had to be patient for a few hours and that victory was guaranteed.

 

So, are we just going to ignore the fact that the First Order's strikecraft could have picked apart the Raddus in a matter of a few hours at most? Something that's revealed by the complete ease with which Ben destroys the entirety of the Raddus' hangar?

 

I wasn't talking about Kylo's group. I was talking about the hundreds of First Order strikecraft that could have destroyed the Raddus utterly. If his group could take out almost all of the Resistance's command as well as the all of the fighters on the Raddus, the rest of the ship should have been no problem had they sent out more.

 

Or maybe they did as much damage as they could. There were a handful of vulnerable spot and they were all hit. Nothing left for the TIEs to do.

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

Ackbar says in the movie: concentrate shields on the back of the ship.

This is why the only vulnerable part of the Raddus was on the bridge and the forward portion. And this is why an missile attack on the engines would not work. The movie even shows the shield deflecting blasts.

 

Good gosh, haven’t you people ever watched a revolution themed “long march” movie before? Or any of the thousands of films preaching guerilla forces in WW2? What’s so hard to understand about that subplot? It’s a classic scenario in these kind of stories.
Holdo CAN’T be nice to Poe after that fiasco he pulled with the bombers, she needs to maintain authority, it’s still a army, not some senate debate. those were good comrades that they lost to his impulsiveness. So many lives lost, and the most important thing is, they didn’t even manage to escape. Not only does he NOT deserve to know the plan, he should be confined to the brig and punished accordingly. As Poe’s character seems to show, 2nd generation revolutionaries are always the hardest to control.


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I agree Poe belonged in the brig. However Holdo should have done something about crew morale. Keeping her plan a secret from everyone so they're all afraid they're gonna die the whole time, was just... bad.

 

Yeah, but if they’re really that afraid to die, then maybe they shouldn’t have joined the resistance in the first place. Death should be a norm for them to embrace at this point. And no matter what people think, you shouldn’t be debating leadership issues in the middle of a military operation. That should come during a respite, and by god these people need a good, long meeting.


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it's not about fear of death but that Holdo gives them no information about what's going on. She won't even say she has a plan. They are left in the dark, in the unknown, and that is scarier than death. It's just not good leadership, IMO.

 

Sorry I just noticed I contradicted myself. But I mean they are all left in this suspense--will they live or die, what will happen, what's the plan, is this the end of the Resistance and the FO has won, do they just wait for hours until finally they too run out of fuel and are destroyed... It would be the longest 17 hours ever, trapped and waiting, and not knowing what will happen, not being able to DO anything about it, the helplessness... And, yes, for some, the hopelessness and fear would start clawing at them, behind it the blind panic and desperation and urge to fall to pure instinct: fight or flight.

Holdo could have alleviated all of this by providing some leadership. That was actually what Poe understood and was trying to tell her when he demanded she tell them there is hope, just something they can fall back on.

 

Also that goes completely against his characterization in TFA. There he's very much for taking the most direct/efficient way to get the job done. He is like "lets end it now, before it gets out of hand."

So this idea that he "enjoys the thrill of the chase" comes completely out of nowhere in TLJ.

 

That is asking for total obedience and the antithesis of Star Wars. Star Wars tells the Empire is bad because they are asking their soldiers to be obedient slaves following orders without question. If the orders are murdering innocent people or being sacrificed as fresh fodder for the enemy, don't question it the Empire will say. Orders are orders. Do it for the greater good, they'll say.

Finn defected from the First Order because he cannot follow their immoral orders. He is treated as a hero instead of a traitor by the film. And yet, why is overthrowing a seemingly incompetent and unworkable leader who is most likely going to lead their group to their doom and replacing her with a more morale and open leader treated as a bad thing? It is because the film said that unworkable admiral is good?

Maybe DJ has a point. The Resistance is no better than the First Order. This would have been a great angle to explore.

 

Really Poe's entire so-called "arc" in this movie is totally at odds with the message of SW.

 

Except the message isn't to obey your superiors. It's to not be reckless.

 

IMO there is a misconception about Poe's arc. He doesn't learn to "blindly follow the authority", he just learns to be less impulsive and more reflective. Then of course we can still dislike the way it was shown on screen, but I think that this was the message of the movie.