ST The Cohesion/Direction/Structure Of The ST & It's Pros & Cons

Oh, there is a good reason. If Poe & Friends are told, then Finn and Rose can't go on their wacky Canto Bight adventure! And what will they do with those characters if they are just stuck on the ship for the entire movie?

 

Because they are the ones learning the lesson about recklessness not the other characters.

 

A cliché slogan is not something to base an entire narrative around. If they showed everything the movie would be 4 hours long. Clearly you're being disingenuous with your criticism bcs you admit that the info is there within the movie, yet you still complain. Rey states her intention to Chewie, ie meeting up with him & the Falcon. Then we're told the means by which she's able to carry out that plan, ie she took Snoke's shuttle. It's a simple 2 + 2 = 4 equation. Anyone who can't work it out should stick with Lego Star Wars & wait a bit longer before tackling feature movies.

 

A "cliche slogan" that has been the basis of proper visual story telling for I don't know how long. I didn't read your post. I guess "let the past die" really is taking hold with people.

 

This isn't a silent movie. The storytelling isn't based on visuals alone. Visual & auditory information are both "proper".

Or how we were told that Vader & the Empire arrived at Cloud City. Or told that they deactivated the hyperdrive on the Falcon. But, but how can two different narrative techniques achieve the same result? It's almost as if there's more than one way to convey information in a movie! You've hit upon something here

 

First, we're not told that the empire has arrived at cloud city. C3po is shot to pieces as he stumbles on some storm troopers, then we see the vader dining room scene. 2nd, the fact that you'd compare something like the empire deactivating the falcon's hyperdrive to rey making her way to a hanger, stealing snoke's personal ship and escaping, shows that you're here to blindly attempt to talk down any and all criticisms. That or you don't have a proper grasp on story balance, in which case, you shouldn't be here trying to shush people.

 

There is no such rule. As for emotions. Do you want her sitting in the Falcon gun turret weeping to herself until she finds her little doll of a rebel pilot? It cheers her up enough to stop moping about her failure and start firing in the middle of the battle that's raging? She said she intended to meet up with Chewie and rejoin the resistance after whatever happened with Ben and that's what happened after the throne room.

Most of us understood that the change of location was already preplanned in the dialogue and that Rey is not just going to sit and mope in the middle of the battle. It's not like in ANH where Luke was allowed a moment of reflection at Obi-Wan dying. Who is Rey mourning? Nobody. She's remarking how much fun and success she's having unlike she had at her previous location.

Sounds like you're confused about nothing at all.

Pointing out the errors, oversights and spurious "rules" in people's arguments doesn't mean that I don't accept any criticism. If someone tries to give me a three pound note and a wooden penny, and I refuse them, please don't presume that I don't like money.

Actually he's shot by someone. But they don't show us who shot him. We don't see how the Empire even got to Cloud City. We only get dialogue from Lando when they magically reappear later telling us they arrived earlier. And we have to wait for 3PO's dialogue much later, in the cell, to explain who shot him.

 

Come on. Rey getting to Snoke's ship and escaping off screen really isn't lazy writing. It's something that didn't need to be shown and is explained to us later. Does everything need to be layed out on screen? Do you realise what that would do to pacing?

 

No, it's one example among many where dialogue is a valid way of telling the audience what's happening. The movie informed us of Rey's plan for if/when she leaves the Supremacy. Later we were told how she was able to carry out that rendezvous plan. Which means this is a pointless & vacuous complaint.

 

But I think it was supposed to be a surprise, both for the characters and the audience that they really had fallen into a terrible trap with Vader himself there. I know that the scene with Vader in the dining room was pretty powerful. Plus, Luke did have some bad visions.

 

And Rey appearing aboard the Falcon as it goes through the FO forces like liver salts was a nice surprise for the audience too.

 

Exactly. Johnson played it perfectly. He gave just enough information to make it all track properly to avoid any plot-holes. Yet he didn't telegraph Rey & Chewie's appearance too overtly as to make it predictable. He struck exactly the right balance.

 

First, I didn't say what you quoted, and second, It was more of a surprise in that i'd forgotten about rey completely and then was like "wait what?!"

 

Totally agree.

In some ways her talk with Chewbacca prior about the rendezvous point reminds me of Lando talking with Luke about meeting up later regarding Jabba's palace. Gives just enough for those who were paying attention to avoid the plot hole but makes that moment of the Falcon shadow first appearing and the sound of the Falcon that much sweeter.

 

Which quote are you talking about?

If you mean this one

Blastaar said: ↑
When writing a story, when you have your main character change settings...so drastically, you never leave it up to exposition.

All I did was shorten this.

When writing a story, when you have your main character change settings and emotional states so drastically, you never leave it up to exposition.

You also prefaced it with this

Anyway.

Forgetting about Rey completely? Even if that's not a gross exaggeration,. I'm pretty sure you understood where she came from, and what she was doing in the scene.

Kind of like when Han Solo "disappears" for almost the entire final act of ANH, but then reappears doing the opposite of what he said he'd do. In that scene, Vader has no clue what's going on so he's the one going "What?". But Luke isn't perturbed or confused at all at Han jubilantly appearing out of nowhere. In spite of the fact that cynical Han told him he's not going to stay and fight his revolution, like he said consistently in the movie, and that he has to leave to pay off Jabba. Luke understands. Plus it's a pleasant "surprise" for him to see his new friend again, coming to save his life in spite of what he said earlier. The audience agreed.

I somehow get the feeling that "surprise" of Rey appearing to help out her friends on Crait, immediately after realising that Ben proibably isn't the friend she thought he could be, was not a pleasant one for you.

Edit: I don't know why your tag came up @Blastaar when I was replying to Childofwinds

 

Great comparison to Han stating he's leaving in ANH and then appearing right at the perfect time to help.

 

Which is a great point in terms of story cohesion because in ANH it's played as though Han is outta there and we don't expect him back. As a child watching it and not being familiar with this story device it's a surprise that he came back.

While with Rey it seems like they are expecting us to forget that she was somewhere because there is no question she's going to appear at some point. I can see kids now asking where is Rey? over and again.

Yes. It would greatly improve it because time and space and geography should mean something. Besides having a moment for Rey hanging over a prone Ren and deciding whether to kill him or not ( a version which was very oddly given to Hux who to that point was turned into comic character).

Again a huge production was made of Finn and Rose' escape and return while Rey got nothing. This happened to Ren in TFA where his escape was only covered by dialogue. These don't even have to be major productions. Simple shots like Vader's escape in ANH can suffice.

 

Rey tells the audience that she will reunite with Chewie.

Hux tells the audience that Rey escaped in Snoke's ship.

Nobody expects the audience to forget where she was. In fact, the movie makes clear, twice, what she is doing.

 

3 times if you count that her first thought after she and Ben Solo joined forces to kill the Prateorian guard, and she's believed that Ben Solo has turned, is to run to the Oculus and declare that if they hurry they can still save them.

 

Except that they do tell us what will happen. It's just that the chaos caused by Holdo distracts us, deliberately, so that her reappearance has some impact. It's not about forgetting. It's about impact. (Vader appearing on the Executor bridge during the escape from Bespin. That used to have impact. Now when the scene plays out it's like "Finally".)

Whether it's exactly what the character said they would do, or the opposite, you get no impact from a character's entrance into a scene unless there's been a sufficient absence and/or a juxtaposition of some kind. It's the oldest trick in the book.

You don't need to continually tell the audience that time and space mean something. Time and space aren't the story so story time should not be devoted to it.

Spaceships taking off and landing is not the story of Star Wars. Never has been. Only devote screen and story time when they are necessary.

 

This quote: But I think it was supposed to be a surprise, both for the characters and the audience that they really had fallen into a terrible trap with Vader himself there. Plus, Luke did have some bad visions.



Even though its correct and highlights a deliberate technique for the audience. Unlike rey struggling with kylo ren, but then suddenly being in the gunner's seat.

 

Is it the seat she's in that's the problem? Because she told Chewie she'd regroup with him after she dealt with Kylo. Didn't declare which seat in the Falcon she would sit in though. I'll give you that.

And we were informed that she had escaped in Snoke's shuttle, the moment Ren regained consciousness.

Everything we're told will happen, happens.

Some people have said there needed to be a scene of Rey contemplating killing the helpless Ren before she escapes to do what she said she would reappears. But her instincts, the force, have told her that this is not hers or Ren's destiny. Do we need to go through it all again?

 

The problem is the main character disappeared for half the 3rd act. We see her in an environment and emotional state that is utterly different from the last time we saw her. This.....adds to the lack of cohesion between scenes. In ESB we saw luke leaving dagobah. We didn't suddenly see him ducking behind corners in the cloud city. They showed luke in his X-wing approaching the city and telling artoo that they were almost there. Why was this brief scene included? to keep up cohesion and not have it be jarring for luke jump from a dense swamp to a city in the clouds. That is how visual storytelling, across all forms, works.

 

How long do people actually think Rey was off screen for in that sequence? They cut to Crait/Leia, Finn and Rose arrive, they go out in the speeders to delay the assault. Rey shows up with the Falcon. Had to be like 5 minutes of screen time. Maybe 6.

 

You just described Han's last act in ANH which you already endorsed.

Because it's not intended to be an impactful pleasant surprise. Luke is walking into a trap, so tension about if and when it will be sprung is what Luke's entrance is all about. Nothing to do with cohesion.

Rey wasn't walking into a trap so depiction of her journey from the throne room to Chewie and then to the battle would only have been expository, and therefore, redundant.