ST JJ Abrams directing Episode IX Discussion

We'll be fine with JJ. I don't mean this in a derogatory way but I honestly think he's gonna make EPIX similar to Jedi-- not in story like TFA was like to ANH but merely in tone, how it was that return to fun adventure. I love TLJ but it makes sense to go back to that sense of wonder and fun that the previous films have to close out this trilogy of trilogies, to celebrate the franchise and I hope unite all of us fans.

 

Nothing will unite the fans. 9 will have its own divisions. But I think JJ will make a great 9 and cap off a really good trilogy. And there is a chance he caps it off in such a way that it ends on a high and elevates the whole ST and the saga. I think a lot of things that people see as going nowhere or being made up on the fly will be shown to be wrapped up well, and we'll see that TPTB had plenty idea of what they were doing and where they were going all along.

Re-watching TFA for the first time since TLJ, I could not understand the idea that there is no cohesion. They sit alongside each other really well IMO. And knowing who Rey is, it all makes sense - way more sense than the convoluted fan servicing that would have been needed to make any variant of Rey Related make sense. All the "evidence" people were so sure about just fades away, and doesn't look weird at all. I love that the Force Awakens in Rey and calls to her through the saber in order to get through to Luke after he's cut himself off. It's briiliant IMO, and totally makes sense.

 

Yep. Luke threw the sabre away when he first saw it. Then later, the sabre was split in two. But what sabre does Luke ‘use’ when he faces Kylo at the end? The blue one. He came full circle. And he’s still a resource to guide Rey in IX, and possibly do something else.

 

Han tells us what the deal is with Luke. Of course Luke rejects the saber initially. But the Force knows better. Without Rey going to draw him out, the Resistance dies on Crait and the Legend of Luke Skywalker never restores the spark of hope to the fight.

 

Indeed. Luke knew of the island because it was the location of the first Jedi Temple. Back then, he was interested in the place because he was relic hunting/looking for information. By the time of Ben’s act of violence, Luke’s interest in the island was due to its secrecy. He doesn’t want to be found. It makes complete sense.

 

I think the only thing that doesn't quite line up is Maz being caught up in the Union dispute - with no mention of what went down just days ago. But I think it's just about OK. She is the kind of character who would have all sorts of trouble beyond the FO, and it could just be a euphemism anyway. I know it is a euphemism - but it feels like the rest of the galaxy is being hammered by the FO. Anyway, that's the only mild thing that ran through my head. Even "WHAT GIRL?!" just becomes typical bad guy ranger at learning there's a fly in the ointment.

 

I guess we could assume after TFA, with her castle attacked by the FO, Maz went out on her own and life went on.

 

That feels a little odd after her speech to everyone in TFA. I think she's obviously been caught up in the chaos, but I wonder is it might have been better to make it clear it was the FO cracking down against her - and everyone else in the galaxy.

 

Hmm, maybe. But because Maz is an incidental character it doesn’t really bother me that much.

 

It doesn't bother me, more it's the only thing that vaguely popped out on the re-watch. Everything else is pretty seamless to me.

 

IMO Snoke's lines when Rey comes to meet him are the best eplanation we could get about her importance in the plot. "Darkness rises and light to meet it". How he explains he always assumed this light would be Luke, but when he exiled himself, the Force brought Rey. I personally do not need any further explanation about what Rey lineage is. It would be nice if IX gave us a few more touches on the whole balance thing, but I believe this aspect of the story is pretty well sorted out, which I honestly was not expecting a few months before the movie premiered.

 

I agree - and I always did - that it's not that her role of her powers have to be explained in terms of lineage.
But to me the all balance thing - until now - it's unconvincing or to say it better not well fitting with the previous movies.
If this is how the force works... then why there was a prophecy at all about someone so special he had to bring balance?
What was the point?
Someone, or somehow, would have done that. And that's not special, but ordinary job.

I really hope they are going to improve somehow this aspect.

But I don't think they will.

 

I was thinking more in terms of Kylo's fall and what is his agenda now that he's Supreme Leader. My instinct is that this and the way it all wraps up will show just how much the ST has been thought through.

 

They've also put themselves in a very compromised position.

They have to somehow fit this trilogy in with I-VI, the Living Force, the Cosmic Force, the Will of the Force and the Balance of the Force as well as the Prophecy of the Chosen One.

Lucas seeded these ideas one way or another over the 6 movies in one form or another and without having to go into any overboard in-depth way in any one of the movies. Like the Rule of Two which to all intents and purposes existed in the OT but didn't get named as such but when it did then it all flowed together.

Rey is in part another Anakin (as is Ben Solo) but ones with no choices to make. She is an outright representative of the Light and Ren the Dark. So why did Anakin and Luke have the ability to choose their destinies while Rey and Ren seemingly don't?

 

@Qui-Riv-Brid .. I find interesting that it was TLJ novel and before of that the databank and maybe TFA V.D. or something else that spoke about the Cosmic and leaving Force.
Not the movies...
I think this is the ST trying to make a sense of it.. somehow.
Or I’m not sure the movie writers were interested in those things at all....
Which pretty telling, to me.

 

How on earth have you taken the conclusion they don't have free will now?

 

Whenever I hear the word "euphemism" I always presume the qualifier "(for sex)." So I was confused initially, then I realized you meant that she used the phrase as kind of a humorous understatement when it was obvious that what was occuring around her was much less "civil" than any courtroom or legal proceedings would be.

Then I realized that "union dispute" actually is a top-drawer euphemism.

(for sex)

EDIT: Then I realized that "qualify" and "euphemize" can mean the same thing and I got pretty confused and lost my train of thought. I guess what I'm trying to say is Snoke is Plagueis.

 

OR...

...with her castle attacked by the FO, Maz went out on her own to secure crews for the rebuilding of her castle and, after having labor proposals drafted, found herself amidst a bidding war that eventually drew sections of her PLA into question, which pricked up the ears of a few labor unions...BOOM, union dispute.

i figgered it owt

 

Whilst I think that the ST already links together all previous films, one final way that this can be done is a way that doesn't sit right with many fans and whom openly reject the idea. Its one that has been thrown around for so long now, but not many like it. For me it would be kind of cool and it would certainly give meaning and direction to Luke's current situation now in that he has found peace and a purpose; particularly the "purpose" part.

And that is to make Snoke, Darth Plagueis.

It would fit. Palpatine thought that he had killed him in his sleep. Plagueis learnt to cheat death and watched from the shadows as galactic events unfolded. He comes back from the dead to lead The First Order. Kylo now thinks he has killed Snoke; not realising it is Plagueis. Snoke/Plagueis comes back from the dead in 9 and Luke's "purpose" (finally realising its Plagueis) as a Force Ghost (in addition to training Rey further) is to finally rid the galaxy of Plagueis once and for all.

All 9 movies are well and truly tied together then

 

I really don't think Snoke should be Plagueis, but I agree that the ST already sits well alongside the rest of the saga. I just mean that we're only at act 2 of this particular story and there is a lot more to come. At this stage of the OT and the PT you couldn't accurately tell the whole story of either, because plenty was saved for act 3 - and yet some are trying to act like the ST as already hit a wall or hasn't given us all the answers - well, no - it hasn't tried to give us the full picture yet. We'll have that by the end of 9.

 

I think that would probably be the most contrieved idea you could possibly come up with. Where would Plagueis have been all those years that Palpatine ruled the galaxy? What did he wait for?

Not only would it drastically weaken Kylo Ren as a villain, but it would also harm the Emperor and Vader. It be extremely weird to have Plagueis cheat death twice, especially with Snoke being cut in half and all. Instead of Palpatine being the ulktimate villain who requires the force to send a chosen one, he'd suddenly be someone who couldn't even kill his own master, like he thought he did. You also rob Kylo Ren of the unique situation of being the actual villain. So far, we had the "main" villain always be someone who was a pawn to the true villain. Bringing back Snoke again would just be a repeat of that. It seems far more intriguing to have Kylo Ren as the big bad for once. An unstable leader who is now in a situation he never really was in before, with the people next in line only having questionable loyalty to him, that's something completely different than we ever had before. It's kind of like Anakin overthrowing the Emperor.

Plagueis should stay what he always was, a master who got killed by his own apprentice.

 

Bacta Tank!

Being healthy again!

But came back because being able to cheat death

 

Yep, I can concede my thoughts on this. I do like the idea more of a "big bad" leader surrounded by people he cannot trust and who would be prepared to knife him in the back at the drop of a hat. It gives The First Order a bit of a Roman Empire feel to it where others are plotting and scheming to take down the Supreme Leader. It would make poor Kylo even more paranoid and unstable than he already is.

 

Interesting, but that killed whatever interest I had in Rey dead on the spot. She's nothing more than "chosen one/space messiah" and I'm sorry but I'm not interested. I hated it the first time around, so why would I care about it now.

Also I to rewatched TFA recently and no, it doesn't line up with TLJ well imo. All it does is makes things both more convoluted and lame.

 

There are tons of links to the saga in the ST but the lack of actual joins to those links is the problem. Since both TFA and TLJ are "remakes" of ANH as TESB, ROTJ, TPM, AOTC and ROTS were they connect in that sense. The difference being the way Lucas remade them was on a totally different order than the more direct and overt way that the ST has. In that sense TLJ was "better" since it's filtering through TESB and shades of AOTC and ROTS was less directly on than TFA.

The ST's focus on rollercoaster action and emotion and not on character and story details is where I find the problems are. This is where actual training for Rey in TLJ and Jedi lore would have been instrumental.

Yes that is one quick fix that would paper over various problems (presuming he was always meant to be Plagueis). That said without support it only really means something to we more dedicated fans as opposed to the general audience.

It could also be used to make him the master puppeteer who was actually overseeing everything from the start. He foresaw all the events and stayed in the background. If the Chosen One fulfilled his destiny then the Sith were destroyed and if he didn't then Plagueis could step in to topple his former apprentice Sidious who did all the heavy lifting. In the new canon they have some story about how Sidious wants to take control of the Force and reshape reality.

In Lucas' saga taking over the galaxy was tied to the Balance of the Force and the Dark side being dominant with Sidious deriving powers from that so as to be unbeatable (save for the Chosen One who he had turned). In the ST it's so far been a more mundane take with simply grabbing power outright by brute strength as opposed to shrouding everything in darkness over time.

There has to be some reason why Snoke took elements of Sidious' playbook albeit in a less imaginative way.

I wouldn't have minded either way. There were many ways to play Snoke but now they've painted themselves into a corner with what looks like a distinct lack of planning (or if they have/had plans then the execution to tie it into I-VI has been dreadful).

I wish you'd explain it to me then because I don't see it. The threads that bind the galaxy of I-VI together are at this point loose hanging threads. Now true those threads can be taken and with a lot of work in IX they can be strung together and tied into I-VI to create something akin to a true 9 part saga.

I'd say that with the failure to have the real Luke in TLJ has totally compromised the ST plus Rey being this pure vessel for the Force who can't choose her own path and is power personified undercuts the entire basis of the saga so IX would have to get around these two massive points to work it into the overall saga.

Except that after 2 movies those trilogies had forward motion. We knew the set-ups and stakes going forward. The ST feels done after two movies. The trilogy is over and we're waiting for the start of the next trilogy. The ending of TLJ felt more like the end of ROTS.

Just as TPM was in essence a prologue the start of the Star Wars maybe IX is going to be an epilogue of sorts. With Luke gone the thread of father and son that underpinned the saga has shifted.

I agree. It seems that if there was an actual plan then it's all dependent on IX because it's going to be the big reveal where the story gets it's set-up at the of the trilogy rather than the start.

I hope that is the case. The fact that they were a few months away from shooting IX when they fired the writer/director doesn't exactly instill confidence. JJ is not a guy know for giving answers. He'd rather do the rollercoaster emotion and action and cut necessary information and character set-ups out.

One of the basis' of the new movies seems to be "Don't worry about the details of the movie we'll just put that material in other media for the fans. The general audience doesn't care about that."