A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

The concept of "it's all canon now" is a total nonsense. As if you're seriously going to tell J.J. Abrams or Rian Johnson that they can't do something because of the 5th issue of a comic book, or the campaign mode of a video game.

Film has, and will always be the native format of Star Wars, and now TV is the rung just below it. Everything else just has to follow suit. As has always been the case.

"It wasn't perfect" is putting it mildly. You also have the advantage of the prequels being, well, prequels, with the outcomes being known quantities anyway. The ST era is best left clear for the filmmakers to craft, then others can populate it appropriately. We also have the entirely new thing of one film picking up mere days after another (or seconds, in regards to Ahch-To).

 

That doesn't really seem like the working relationship between directors and the Story Group, though. The SG isn't there to say "no, you can't do that", but to offer suggestions and inspiration based on existing material. A writer might come in and say, "hey, I'm after a mud planet for the new film", and the SG suggests Mimban.

 

Agreed, that's exactly it, but if Johnson wants to have Luke backhand the importance of Jakku (because from what we see in the films it's just the site of a battle), especially when the dialogue is going to open up a degree of empathy towards Rey (oh, you're from nowhere like me) then so be it. What I have an issue is this idea that it's all on the one rung now when that's clearly not going to be the case.

 

Sadly, I'd have to agree. It does strike me as a missed opportunity.

The strangest thing is, where the ST is concerned, is they have demonstrated that they have all the skills they need on the other eras, they're just not applying them to that ST era.

 

They aren't applying well to other areas. Healthwise, saw in rebels doesn't match rogue one when it should be literally months apart. Theres confusion on if rebels ends after endor or jakku. The leia comic says they will evacuate yavin immediately, yet she returns to yavin after her extended adventure. The new darth vader comic had the Jedi temple computer call anakin a jedi master.

And the solo movie is still to come.

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Saw's appearance in Rebels is a good year or more before Rogue One, and he's not in hiding on Jedha yet. Rebels ends after Endor, as Sabine says. The Yavin evacuation was delayed in Legends too, likely to allow for stories to take place -- and who knows how long evacuating a base of that size would take. The Resistance had a couple of days for theirs. "Master" has always been an honorific for Jedi; the younglings call him Master Skywalker in ROTS, and that last one's hardly a huge mistake. Errors and typos will happen regardless of how much focus is applied.

 

Heck, Sio Bibble calls Anakin "Master Jedi" in AOTC when he's wearing a Padawan braid.

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This is being a bit disingenuous. Of course the TV series set just around the time of the most recent movie would use aspects of that movie. It's no different than the Tarkovsky Clone Wars series using aspects of AOTC. Tarkovsky Clone Wars also dug back to both the Bantam era and the concurrent YA books to connect them both to the prequels. Rebels using stuff from Rogue One isn't some new thing that only the story group makes possible, it's just the same pattern that's been happening for at least the last fifteen years of Star Wars TV.

And Shaak Ti didn't get three deaths, since two of them were cut scenes that were never any type of canon.

 

Wasn't there a general principle that cut scenes are S-canon - canon unless later media chooses to contradict them?

Biggs's conversation with Luke on Tatooine being an example.

Heck, the "Shaak Ti scene of Anakin killing her in the temple" is suggested to be G-canon in some respects - possibly a rare case where C-canon (TFU) is allowed to override G-canon:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

• G-canon was George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources were also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources was C-canon. When the films were changed, the newest editions were deemed to take canonical precedence over older ones, as they corrected mistakes, improved consistency between the two trilogies, and expressed Lucas's current vision of the Star Warsuniverse most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs were also considered G-canon (when they didn't conflict with the movie).[4]

 

I remember the "any statements by George Lucas" part becoming pretty funny after he did that interview where he mentioned in passing "Luke never got married, the Emperor never got cloned" (wtte)

Jon Stewart jokes, though? Gospel!

 

...beg pardon? I can't for the life of me remember what you're talking about. Granted it's been a long time since I've watched the Microseries, but what Bantam and YA references are you talking about?

 

The banking clan being from muunilist was a zahn hand of thrawn thing I believe.

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It was?? I'm pretty sure the Muuns and the Banking Clan were created for AOTC.

The only thing I can think of is the use of Mon Calamari.

 

HELLO HI DID SOMEONE JUST SAY MUUNS?

...Sidv is right. Hand of Thrawn introduced Muunilinst and the bankers, although not described as the IBC specifically. Interestingly, the individual from Muunilinst in HoT was described much like a Muun (tall and thin), although not specifically identified as an alien (nor human). It was really a minor role.

EDIT: Since we're on the subject -- the concept art of San Hill didn't always look like an alien, and sometimes he had hair. There is some floating around on Dermot Power's website: https://adobeus.myportfolio.com/projects

So in other words, the association between Muunilinst and AOTC's character came later. If I had to guess, it was for HolonetNews, right before AOTC was released.

 

Interesting, I never knew that! (and I read VotF lol)

 

Lord Graemon.

No, I don't have an eidetic memory.

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When Transformers: Age of Extinction is doing a better portrait of heroism, then I know SW is in a bad way!

 

Exactly the above for the Bantam link - the Tarkovsky series took the banking planet Muunilinst from Zahn and connected it to the Muun banking aliens from AOTC, which I think is one of the best examples of retcons in the GFFA.

The YA link was the use of Ilum from the Jedi Quest books. Though I feel like Ilum's use in the Tarkovsky CW was so memorable it's somewhat forgotten that it didn't actually originate in the cartoon.

 

I miss this SW storytelling. So many say that Story Group is new and different with multimedia storytelling, but it's not.

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I still really like TFA and don't think it's contradicted or weakened by TLJ, but it sure does seem like Rey busts Kylo's lightsaber in their duel. Maybe he just fixes it?

 

That shot confused people at the time - I recall the discussion in the TFA thread, and I myself initially assumed she'd destroyed it, but I think it was pretty quickly cleared up that no, that didn't happen. (If nothing else, the stuff in the TLJ artbook about how there were some concerns about destroying Kylo's mask even though it made a ton of narrative sense, because of marketing, probably makes it clear that they wouldn't wreck his lightsaber 'in passing.')

 

It's not just in passing, though - when she appears to make the strike there's a sound effect that seems to mean either she's destroyed his lightsaber or behanded him. Retroactively, it's not clear what's happened there, but I think we can say what the intention seemed to be at the time.

 

I figured he just repaired it.

 

Actually, yeah, now that I look, the Wook says that Rey did damage it, and his repairs are why the appearance is slightly different in TLJ. (Which I hadn't even noticed, but I figure it's probably one of those "Vader's suit" things that people generally won't pick up on until they've watched the movie tons of times).