Lit What’s your view on Operation Cinder?

What is your assessment on it? Was it a wise choice to be made for the new continuity for the last days of the Empire? Or do you wish the end of the Civil War played out differently then what we got?

 

It's fine. Accelerates things somewhat so we can jump right into the New Republic, but, as we can see with Aftermath and Alphabet Squadron, it doesn't eliminate the interesting "vying imperial factions" element from Legends.

 

I just saw the cutscenes of the game on youtube. Made no sense for me.

 

Operation Cinder was a thing way before Battlefront 2 was. First shown in the Shattered Empire comics, then was mentioned in the Aftermath series. Lots more minor mentions, like how the facility the rebels infiltrate at the beginning of the Star Wars comic run is actually producing the sentinel droids that transmit the Emperor's will posthumously.

 

I like the idea that Palpatine didn’t waltz into Endor blindly and actually had some awareness of the fact that it might go against him. Given that understanding, Cinder makes sense and is an interesting alternative to what the EU did.

 

Oh, I think the EU Palpatine also had an idea that Endor might be a trap for the Empire, so to speak. That Palpatine just took different precautions (ala the essence transfer and his clones).

 

Yeah, the idea that "Palpatine at least considered the fact he might die and put in a motion a plan to actively have the Empire collapse without him" has been around since the Dark Empire Sourcebook, if not DE itself.

 

I preferred the idea that it's a natural conclusion of how Palpatine set the Empire up, not something he forced to happen.

 

Looking at Sheev's mentality it makes perfect sense..."if I can't have the Galaxy...no one can." It would also be something that would separate the true believers from the "good Imperials". As well as push a lot of worlds over to the NR.

 

You know how when an Imperial officer screws up and they get shot or force choked? Operation Cinder is that on a galactic level. Idea can’t understand why they’re destroying her home planet full of “good Imperial citizens.” From Palpatine’s perspective, if they were really good Imperial citizens, he’d still be alive. The Battle of Endor was a complete failure, not just of the navy and the personnel stationed on Endor and DS2, but the Empire as a whole.


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convenient for plot, although it fits Sheevy's character to be so petty. I actually really like the connotation that if Vader ever fulfilled the Rule of Two, the Empire was programmed to spite him and leave him with nothing to rule.

 

With Daala as the Gallius Rax of Legends...

 

The Empire was a fascist dictatorship so of course it would collapse upon his death. I don't think Operation: Cinder made that any different. It's just a neat little plot that exposes the Empire's leader for what he was.

 

Obviously it also would fit better with the initial DE placement just after ROTJ. And don't forget that the opening scene of DE is Luke walking alone out onto a battlefield to single-handedly stare down an AT-AT and shrugging off its laser fire... definitely not an image that got reused in the post-ROTJ new canon

 

I'd argue that Operation Cinder would also function as a last test of Vader's ability should he have killed Sidious. If Vader succeeded in keep in control of the Empire despite Sidious and Rax's machinations, he would have proven himself stronger than Sidious and deserving the role of Emperor.

 

I find Operation: Cinder to be very satisfying. It shows the entire Galaxy, including all loyal Imperials, just who their beloved Emperor really was.

A power-hungry fiend who only created the Empire to satisfy his own self-centered desire for dominion.

There was never anything noble about the Empire. It was evil from the day it was created, built on the blood of innocent children.

Operation: Cinder is the last gasp of the petty and selfish Emperor. Incidentally, it shows that Thrawn's plan was a complete joke. He hoped to redeem the Empire by ensuring that the leader after Palpatine would be a noble and decent ruler. The joke was on him, as the Empire was never intended to outlast its creator.

The Empire was never anything more than Darth Sidious's chosen method of dominating the entire Galaxy through fear and terror. Operation: Cinder is proof of this, and proof to every last person who thought that the Empire could be redeemed and fixed that they were wrong.

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Cinder also showed the truth of Tagge's question: "How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"

 

I think Operation Cinder makes sense in universe. There was no way Palpatine wanted a successor. The Empire was his and if he died it was the fault of others. So they needed to be punished. Imperials either failed Palpatine or betrayed him by taking power and so Imperial worlds would be devastated. The Rebels fought him and so would be punished as well. It's a final act of spite against the galaxy. I doubt Palpatine expected to die, but I'm sure he'd find comfort knowing if he, did the galaxy would suffer. From a story telling perspective, I think Operation Cinder is good by preserving Palpatine's central role in the GCW. Even after his death, he is influencing events. The war ends when Palpatine's final plan fails. Since he is an antagonist in the OT, I much prefer this to the post Endor war being driven by new warlords. They have their place and I hope we have a lot of stories about them. However as the central narrative, I prefer Cinder and the Contingency because the New Republic is still essentially fighting Palpatine.

 

This isn't necessarily the case. It's completely dependent upon if they have some type of succession plan, or if another leader could gather enough support. Cinder essentially made that task impossible as it not only turned the population against the Empire, but it also split the Empire between extremists and moderates.

 

what bugs me is not the intent but the mechanics. Why make another Death Star if you have the capability to cinder-size the dissident planets?. It's crueler to ruin the weather and have a world slowly collapse and die than to blow it up in seconds.

the answer could be "Why not make another Death Star?"; then it's just Sheev being financially irresponsible

 

What if Palaptine died of old age?

Would he have found a successor beforehand or allow operation cinder anyways?

 

No. For a successor to inherit the mantle of Sith Master by simple fiat of the Master's natural death goes against the fundamental principle of the Rule of Two.

"Only the strongest has the right to rule the Sith! The title of Dark Lord must be seized, wrenched from the all-powerful grasp of the Master!"

 

I feel like Sidious's usage of the Rule of Two was completely twisted as early as the outbreak of the Clone Wars. He doesn't care about extending a line of powerful Sith. He just wants "UNLIMITEF POWAH" and galactic domination. There was no way that Vader ever would have taken the Empire as his own.

 

He'd probably just allow Operation Cinder. Palpatine didn't care about the galaxy beyond what it could give him. After he does, it doesn't matter to him. I doubt he'd take the time to create different outcomes for if he died because he was killed or for natural causes. He'd just let whatever happened hsppen