Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

How much rescuing can you do in a single seat fighter?

 

So... I was modeling the new TIE Silencer from EP9 and I realised something. The fighter has a ventral turret like the Special Forces TIE from The Force Awakens, which means it can hold two people inside.

Here is my theory...

Spoiler

The same way the Special Forces TIE was designed for The Force Awakens to hold Finn and Poe in that scene, I'm pretty sure they re-designed the TIE Silencer so they could have Kylo and Rey flying together in that TIE.

I believe the scene we see in the trailer is some sort of training scene, or a pickup or whatever, but a "friendly" scene between them. Rey is getting ready to jump on the TIE and Kylo is deliberately flying low without shooting so she can board the TIE with a jump.

 

Apparently in X-wing Alliance, you could pick up one ejected pilot at at time with your starfighter, and drag him along underneath your ship, through hyperspace, back to your mothership.

 

Spoiler

If you pay attention to the background, the shot where she's running from it, and the shot where she jumps, they're in different places.

 

Vietnam they used to have A-1 Skyraiders fly support while rescue helicopters went in and actually picked up downed pilots. Could be the same thing.

 

Very cool designs.

The Razorcrest reminds me of Sugi's ship, the Halo. Not the same model, but possibly the same manufacturer

 

On the poster...bottom right with the FO...

Spoiler

is that Rucklin??

 

Spoiler

Nah, it's Mr. Unerhill

 

What's the difference between concussion missiles and proton torpedoes? I'm looking at the Wookieepedia pages for both, and apparently they both "release clouds of high-velocity proton particles". Why are they different things at all if they do the same thing?

 

Concussion missiles are for use on small manoeuvrable ships that are akin to our aircraft. They are the air to air missile. Torpedoes are for use on larger ships that are akin to our sea ships. They are the air to ground and anti-ship missiles.

 

Eh? But we see right out of ANH that X-wings have proton torpedoes. I think in both Legends and the new EU, we've got capital ships armed with concussion missiles. In Wedge's Gamble, Corran Horn fires proton torpedoes against TIE fighters, and in Isard's Revenge a pair of Victory-class Star Destroyers fire concussion missiles at enemy capital ships...

I think in X-wing Alliance concussion missiles are faster and more maneuverable, while proton torpedoes are slower but hit harder. But then Wookieepedia also states that concussion missiles vary in size from anti-starfighter missiles to large anti-capital ship ones. So if size and purpose doesn't distinguish a proton torpedo from a concussion missile, and they both use the same proton warhead...what difference is there between them?

 

Capital ship grade concussion missiles are smaller and faster in order to evade point defense like real world ship missiles while proton torpedoes are more akin to, well, torpedoes or heavy warheads.

 

However starfighters like the A-Wing carry concussion missiles and have been shown using them in dogfights.

 

So question....Was the Tantive IV ever destroyed, only source I have is that the Empire SAID it was destroyed in a collision with an asteroid but that is official PR....Is there any actual evidence to say the Tantive IV was destroyed?

 

Never said it was....and why waste it...just kill the crew, scrub the computers and IFF transponder and put it to use.

 

Okay...Thank you...That's all i need to know.

 

Does this mean proton torpedoes carried by X-wings are bigger than concussion missiles carried by a Victory Star Destroyer, which are then bigger than concussion missiles carried by an A-wing? Proton torpedoes are also used to attack capital ships though, so shouldn't that mean they ought to be able to evade point defenses as well?

Also. speaking of point defenses...in X-wing Alliance, a capital ship's point defenses could shoot down something like 90% of incoming warheads. I don't think we ever see missiles getting shot down in any of the other games, books, or comics, so should this depiction be treated as canon?

 

We don't know the yield of every warhead but I'd guess capital ship grade warheads are usually more powerful than fighter based ones.

 

Would be an ideal vessel to give to a unit such as Inferno Squadron.

Given the illustrations, I would assume the proton torpedo has less range and more maneuverability. While the concussion missile has greater range, less manuaverability, and greater armor piercing capability.

 

Regarding concussion missiles, the Wookieepedia article on the Starhawk mentions missiles and laser cannons as being part of its armament. Could this be indicative of a doctrinal shift in naval battle, or at least an attempt at one?

We all know that turbolasers and the resulting broadside shootouts between cap ships are evocative of the "big gun" battleships of WW2. Fast forward to the modern day, those guns are all but gone(save for a single 5 in. battery on most destroyers), replaced by anti ship missiles and CIWS point defense systems. The Starhawk's alleged armament is a perfect parallel to this, especially if the missiles are not regular concussion missiles, but assault concussion missiles optimized for anti capital ship combat. If canon assault concussion missiles are anything like their modern day counterparts, a Starhawk would theoretically be able to stay out of turbolaser range while pummeling its adversary with high-yield warheads, quickly neutralizing any attempt at a counterattack with point-defense laser cannons.

Most certainly overspeculation, but it isn't entirely out of the question...

 

When it comes to starfighter combat, Episodes III and VII are quite indicative of how effective concussion missiles can be against starfighters, which is why they seem to be favored by interceptors (A-Wings, Tri-Fighters, TIE-Defenders..). In contrast, I'm pretty sure we only ever saw proton torpedoes being used against stationary targets in the movies (like the Star Destroyer or the Eadu landing pad in Rogue One), and they are more likely to be carried by heavier multi-role or bomber starfighters (X-Wings, Y-Wings, ARC-170s..).
One interesting fact is that capital ships seem to favor missiles and turbolasers to torpedoes and, in fact, I can't recall any heavy proton torpedo emplacement (which is curious given the damage a very small one could cause). The closest example I can think of are the flak guns placed on the sides of the Invisible Hand (which would presumably shoot proton artillery like their ground-based variant), but the ship-to-ship focused Imperial-class only carries turbolasers. My personal theory is that proton torpedoes, being meant for capital ship combat, are a bit redundant when your ship or space station has enough power to have heavy turbolasers mounted on it, something that can't be said about a starfighter.
On the other hand, concussion missiles are not redundant emplacements because they are much more fit as a defense against starfighters than a turbolaser is, as seen with the Finalizer. The lack of missile emplacements on the Imperial-class can be justified by saying that the destroyer is often claimed to be considerably lacking when it comes to anti-starfighter combat.

 

They do look similar, good catch.

Maybe, however as I've said, Ryder Windham has a history of mentioning the TIE Infiltrator in his works.

That two-pod design also reminds me of this fan design for a FO TIE Bomber.
But it's propably just a reference to Needas shuttle from ESB. So maybe this thing will be designated TIE Infiltrator. Or maybe some TIE designs for TFA?

I didn't know about that.

Clone Trooper Able was rescued with the forward landing gear of an X-Wing.

Are you sure? Isn't the general rule in Star Wars that the larger the craft, the larger and more powerful their armament?

According to Starships of the Galaxy, the concussion missiles carried by Victory-class Star Destroyers are pretty much the most powerful ones around. Which would be difficult to accomplish with mainstream production of small size missiles.

And in The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide the missile tubes are even called massive and heavy. Also it mentions that they could be exchanged for standard size ones, which would of course be able to carry many more missiles (thereby also making the Victories the missile boat when it comes to capital ships in Star Wars).

The key is speed and targeting. While concussion missiles are more likely to hit a capital ship, they can still be shot down rather easily. However if you fly a really fast craft, say the TIE Defender (equipped with a tractor beam or something), and put all your energy into the engines, even torpedo runs are likely to hit as your speed is added to the warheads own slow speed. And of course if you don't target a capital ship while firing, they won't be able to shoot them down.

The reason why you usually won't see this happen in the game is because most bombers are rather slow and AI is not able to dumbfire.

Therefore whenever TIE Bombers are making torpedo runs on Mon Calamari cruisers, chances are that almost no warheads will ever hit as the craft is slow and their warheads are too. Also larger capital ships have tons of guns, so there are usually more than enough to deal with a few torpedoes.

But logically speaking most guns on capital ships would have a hard time intercepting anything that small and comparatively fast. However of course there are not dedicated point defense guns in X-Wing Alliance.

 

I guess my point is, we can probably disregard the depiction of missiles in XWA, right? Because in-game, missiles and torpedoes are almost worthless against capital ships, what with 90% of them getting shot down by defenses...and that just seems ridiculous to me.

 

I take that as a representation of ECM. If you dumbfire, they tend to hit just fine, assuming your aim is good.

 

Y'all know what this means...