CT ROTJ Almost had Kenobi and Yoda fighting Palpatine as Force Ghosts

In the latest of the hell you say news, apparently GL's initial rough draft of ROTJ had the Force Ghosts of Kenobi and Yoda fighting Palpatine to save Luke at the end (as opposed to Vadar tossing him down the shoot). Someone actually goes farther in a suggestive spoiler of generational ending for TROS.

https://comicbook.com/starwars/2019...t-obi-wan-yoda-fighting-emperor-force-ghosts/

 

I don't like force ghosts at all, much less fighting force ghosts. I much prefer the doubtfully-heard voice of old Ben in the 1977 Star Wars film.

 

This has been known for years. Along with the very logical reason for why the entire concept was abandoned.

 

Read that in The Making of Return of the Jedi.

I will admit that I like the concept of Palpatine being haunted by the Force ghosts, if not actually fighting them. I did like how the Emperor was startled by Yoda in the rough draft.

I’m good with what we got though.

 

Well of course considering the OT was supposed to be about Luke's journey, being aided by those Force ghosts would've been anti-climactic as opposed to his father having a sudden change of heart at the last minute. It's not to say the door's not open for something generational in TROS.

 

I agree. They feel a bit like a cheap way to bring back a character after the drama of their death has already been rinsed. Although, I do like the vision of Obi-Wan that appears in TESB on Hoth, but that is because it is presented as a faint apparition in swirling icy wind, appearing to an injured, hallucinating semi-conscious Luke. It worked great in that scene.

 

Yep. That vision is certainly the best of the bunch.

 

Yeah, agreed. It makes the viewer question if what Luke has seen is real or not.

 

There is another part - that I'm too lazy to type up right now - where during the battle, every time Palpatine shoots lightning at Luke, an energy dome surrounds and protects Luke, and you can see Yoda's image light up next to it.

 

Hmm... was that the original intention for the line "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"?

 

Well, in the early ROTJ scripts, Ben and Yoda were able to return in the flesh. Plus, Ben is still able to talk to Luke as a ghost, and thus provide guidance without having to worry about Vader.

 

I hope they recycle this idea for 9

 

You know, I know it doesn't seem a very popular idea on this thread so far, but...I actually don't hate that. The idea of seeing Ghost Yoda and Obi-Wan fighting the Emperor while Luke fights Vader, and it's this multiple level kind of Force melee thing, Kind of interesting. Almost kind of reminds me of Prori Incantatem in Harry Potter, where Harry is fighting Voldemort and the "ghosts" of his parents help him get away by distracting Voldemort...That was a nice moment.

I suppose I wouldn't be as open to this idea if I hadn't seen Yoda summon lightning in TLJ to burn the tree though. I've always been open to interesting new ideas related to the Force-as long as it doesn't get too "Force Unleashed/Mortal Kombat"-y.

Also, the fact that GL was the one that first thought of it (if this is true), kind of adds a bit of cred to the idea too for me. IIRC, that also seems like an idea drawn from ancient mythology, as GL has done for many story elements. The idea of those that have passed on stepping in to help when it matters most. Maybe the physical events didn't actually occur in those tales directly, but just the kind of general feeling of it, if you know what I mean...

That's an interesting thought...that WOULD be some nice foreshadowing.

TBH I would not be surprised. I don't know any spoilers or anything, but based on what I've seen/heard, I wouldn't think it seems all that farfetched. Although if they do that, I would love to see Anakin join the "fight."

 

On one hand, since we never saw it on TROS, I feel as though something was left on the table not being able to see how a Force Spirit being could be all "powerful/holy" and protect/help Luke.
On the other i wouldn't want to mess with the ending of the movie as Anakin has to make the right choice as Luke is in pain thus revealing his true good intentions. The Force Spirit would've made more sense for TROS but that's another thread.

 

It kind of negates Obi Wan's "I cannot interfere" line.

 

I figured the reason Obi-Wan would not interfere in ESB was cos he and Yoda didn't support the idea of Luke going to fight Darth Vader. In ROTJ it's different-Obi-Wan and Yoda both told him he had to that time.

 

Wonder what the ST would've been like built on that as a foundation!

 

It really would have put to rest the whole debate about what force ghosts could do

 

There has to be limitations to keep the story grounded, i preferred it that only in a certain place, strong with Force could Force ghosts become corporeal. Now with the last two episodes of the ST done and dusted, it opens the possibility of Force ghosts physically interacting any place, any time.

 

I actually like the idea that Force ghosts can use the Force to interact in certain ways with the physical universe. I mean-if you stop and actually think about it-why wouldn't/couldn't they? The very fact that they could make themselves appear in the physical universe in the first place kind of makes it logical from just a basic sense. But I agree-the concept should have limitations.

I personally wouldn't have pushed for the Force ghosts to actually help out in ROTJ and TROS climaxes-cos to me that opens up too many cans of worms (like for one: why then wouldn't they just help in every conflict?). It also seems a little too video-gamey to me, as a concept. But I would have liked them to at least be interacting with the main character at some point during the conflict, perhaps not unlike Harry Potter at the battle of Hogwarts. TROS came quite close with this-it was only voice but not image. To me it would've been perfect if they would've actually appeared visually as well. It would be interesting to see how Palpatine would react to this as well, provided he also could see them.

 

Force ghosts being "audio only" is an idea that shows up in SW 1977, in ROTS, and now in TROS. Funny that it keeps intruding its head into the light that way.

 

Obi Wan's "I cannot interfere." From a certain point of view again Luke

 

When someone does any kind of creative work, the first drafts have very often ideas that don't really works and so then they are left out. So, I guess it isn't strange that in the process of writing we can find out some odd stuffs. If it was discarded, it didn't probably work!

 

hey a fellow Lego.