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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Fanclub Jacen Solo Fan Club: Forever in the Light

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by -Vergere-, Oct 14, 2001.

  1. Mira Grau

    Mira Grau Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    Kinda wonder if Jacen had achieved rule if he had actually stayed sane or sucumbed to paranoia seeing more and more people as weeds, that he needed to erradicate. Would he have tolreated the corrupt nobilities of Hapes and the empire forever? Same with the Hutts.
     
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  2. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I like to think Only Right gives a good idea as to how an Emperor Caedus scenario would look like in practice. Yes he would aim to crush or absorb all the minor factions. He would aim to destroy all the "weeds" in his garden galaxy. Whether that be the Hutt Kajidics, Imperial moffs, Krayt's sith, the hapan nobles, and all the rest.

    Though if Tahiri and not Ben was the apprentice, that would change things a lot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
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  3. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Minus, perhaps, turning into a god at the end. If Jacen would have explained to TK what he was doing....like he did in Only Right...I think the Hapans would have ceased to be a problem -- the two of them would have rooted out the corrupt bureaucrats.
     
  4. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    More than a god, he became the force itself, and the originator, sustainer, and ender of all things(as a note, I love that part of the story but I can see how it would make people go "Wait what!"). But yeah, if he had explained to Tenel Ka why he was doing what he was doing, as he did in Only Right, I don't see why she wouldn't stand by him.
     
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  5. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2012
    What I thought was really interesting is that she didn't want to...not at first, but then slowly understood his plan. Man, I wish I could write like that.
     
  6. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Sighs, I wish Adahn was still around, and I wish was a hundredth as good a writer as he is.
     
  7. Adalia-Durron

    Adalia-Durron WNU/Costume/Props/EUC Mod. star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Could they (and of course it wasn't) blame him for his brothers death? Like 'you're the oldest you should have been the one!'

    From my point of view he should have been too, I loved Anakin Solo and was devastated when he died.


    Sent from my X Wing via sub space.
     
  8. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    The New Jedi order would not have had the same thematic and moral weight if it was Anakin.

    Jacen was the heart and soul of the series. Not Anakin.
     
  9. Mira Grau

    Mira Grau Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    Well if we say the oldest should die, that´s Jaina not Jacen.
    OOU I think that is the source of a lot of Jacen hatred, that he survived were his brother died. That really becomes apparent when the writres set up Ben Skywalker up as the new protagonist who is very similiar to Anakin.
    IU Maybe I defenetly could see that, "my" Jacen at least blames himself for it(though he blames himself for pretty every bad thing that ever happened to his family), and I think others might have as well. Generally though I think Jacen was the least favourite child of his parents probably even more after Anakins death.

    But what I think he really lacked was a true and close friend, someone who could really understand him, the people around him both family and friends, they don´t share his worldview they don´t rethink themselves, they don´t philosophize. I think being unable to ever speak about these things to the people close to him, due to their disintrest, is the reason a wedge began to grow between him and everyone around him. To the point that when finally someone listened, or pretened to, Lumiya Jacen fell for her manipulations, because he belived he had finally found someone who truly understands him.
     
  10. Adalia-Durron

    Adalia-Durron WNU/Costume/Props/EUC Mod. star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jun 3, 2003
    Referring to Sons, the oldest son......somewhere in a parents mind they want their youngest to be protected, hell I do it with my own son. My daughter in my mind is strong, independent and doesn't need me and didn't from 18, but my son is 20 next month and he still need me in my mind........maybe I need him?

    And as a parent, I can safely say I have no favorite, I know my kids are very different and very much individuals, I love them equally, worry about them equally and am proud of them equally. As a parent I try very hard not to play favorites as it causes so much grief. I see it with my husband, his brother is clearly the favorite and it has a very profound effect on my husband. He says 'Eh, the squeaky wheel gets the grease', meaning the more his brother moans about his life, the more his parents do for him and give him. Its nuts........almost symbiotic.
     
  11. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Anakin was popular I think because he was conventionally heroic and charismatic, whereas Jacen isn’t a traditional hero.

    He is a hero. But not the vein a lot of people can conceptualize easily.
     
  12. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Could they? They did...or at least Jaina and Ganner and Mara did. The fans did. Jacen even blames himself. His I understand...survivor's guilt and all...but the others? Shame on them.

    Perhaps if Anakin had been an introspective character from the start, I would have felt something when he died. Instead, I thought...and still think....that Anakin got a whole lot of people killed because of a stupid plan for very little gain. Anakin died because of bad planning, lousy intel, and crap strategic vision.

    That's why I'm glad I've only got one kiddo! ;)
     
  13. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Anakin doesn't think though, he's a fighter. His attitude is that if there are bad people needing killing, his job is go do that.

    That's what separates Anakin from Jacen, one seriously contemplates and reflects on life, the other just runs with the moment.
     
  14. Mira Grau

    Mira Grau Force Ghost star 5

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    May 11, 2016
    Its not just Anakin and Jacen though, its basically Jacen from everyone around him.
     
  15. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Am I the only person who wants Ben to get a Sith name and it to be Darth Caedus?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  16. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    And I am almost certain that is why a large section of the fanbase disliked him.
     
  17. Mira Grau

    Mira Grau Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    That, his sudden shift in character from YJK to NJO, the writers revealing that he got to live instead of Anakin and killing Mara are I would say the main reason he is hated.
     
  18. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Well in fairness, people change. Jacen is about 16 or so at the start of the NJO. A lot of people change a lot from fifteen to sixteen.

    But yeah, he lived and Anakin didn't and he killed Mara, and thus he got the ire of the majority of the fanbase.
     
  19. Mira Grau

    Mira Grau Force Ghost star 5

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    May 11, 2016
    Sure but this happening entirely offscreen. I would have really prefered if they had done it in early NJO, have the Vong War and the death of someone of his, extended, family be the thing that causes him to mature and go from jokster to thinker.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  20. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Like being a jokester or class clown is something you do in your early teenage years, usually when people hit 16/17 they cease such adolescent behavior.
     
  21. Mira Grau

    Mira Grau Force Ghost star 5

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    May 11, 2016
    I know but its still jarring how drastic the shift is, and keep in mind his father never really outgrew the jokster.
     
  22. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    To me, that strikes me as Jacen being intended as the hero, given he became a thinker and budding philosopher and was so at the start of the NJO.

    Though I could be wrong. But I heard somewhere Jacen was always supposed to be the hero.

    The idea of the supreme overlord dying the way he did was always the plan. Having Jacen the thinker or even pacifist die at Mykr-would have achieved what exactly? A way to show Jacen was wrong? So Anakin could cut his way to victory, with his certainty not challenged? Anakin's death on the other hand is a clear refutation of the valorization of martial might over understanding, violence over compassion.

    In terms of arcs, I'm not really sure how Anakin would have worked thematically as the hero of the NJO. Jacen worked because he made peace, through compassion and understanding whereas Anakin was a warrior to the very end. Like the whole point of Traitor is that Jacen gains philosophical knowledge, not martial knowledge.

    I think the main reason why Anakin was somewhat more popular-is that audiences in general want heroes who have clear cut moral centers and don't ask questions or bother with ethics.

    To some readers, Jacen asking questions and "navel gazing" is frustrating, annoying, perhaps even angering-after all the Vong are bad and need to be defeated, someone should slap him on the head, its war, not philosophy class.

    I think Jacen's tendency though to look at things beyond the immediate "do stuff and solve problem" routine is why a substantial section of the audience disliked him.

    More generally philosophical or introspective protagonists don't connect as well with action heroes-men who take action and ask if their action is right, it obviously is. Because in a lot of ways-that's the point of heroes in fiction, a sort of escapism-Superman(to use a popular non SW example) knows what is right and what is wrong, and he takes action from that foreknowledge. He doesn't have to think about it. And a lot of audiences find enjoyment in that moral certainty and lack of ambiguity.

    Audiences want comfort and certainty-that there is good and there is bad, and that these things are easily identified and conceptualized, and can be addressed directly and simply. Jacen as a protagonist doesn't provide that sort of comfort, and that is why he can be frustrating for readers, who want clear cut heroes defeating clear cut villains.

    Anyway, that's just some meta reflection on my part. Basically Jacen doesn't offer the same sort of emotional and psychological appeal traditional protagonists do. Jacen presents a protagonist who asks "is this right", "are we in the right", "do we truly understand?", whereas Anakin says "I don't have to think, I just know and am going to act on that (supposed) certain knowledge". And a lot of audiences simply want the latter.

    Of course there is nothing wrong with morally certain heroes who don't need to philosophize, and I am not trying to speak badly of people that enjoy them, I am just offering some commentary on why Jacen is unpopular amongst some sections of the fandom.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  23. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Seemingly so!


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  24. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2012
    Ha! You replied right as I was typing!

    I do...but I also do not. I do think that they owe the fans who spent who knows how much money on all of these books SOMETHING on screen...more than naming Hera's kiddo at the very end of Rebels. But, they already pick-and-chose which parts of the EU they want to keep.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
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  25. Amateur_Aphra

    Amateur_Aphra Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2019
    [New to the forum, sorry if you all have covered this already]

    I think, conversely, this is also what makes Jacen an appealing protagonist. Even with numerous movies/media about superheroes and such, there hasn't really been a protagonist that wrestles so much with the notion of right and wrong, and then to morally ends in the same place Jacen was at the end of NJO.
    His transformation from YJK to NJO was simply him growing up and trying to understand the realities of the war torn galaxy around him. I think that loss of innocence and heighten moral awareness is something more authors and writers should strive for when writing their protagonists.
    I think LOTF did a disservice to the character because he grew so emotionally aware in NJO. It all seemed to fall apart in LOTF.

    So here's to more philosophical, empathetic heroes like Jacen Solo.