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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Two things I can think of off the top of my head, though both are special circumstances - the mirror universe episode and the one where he thinks he's some sort of swashbuckler (The Naked Time, maybe?). In both of them he shows clear interest in Uhura. But the JJ Abrams films changing the characters doesn't bother me, because they're not actually the same characters. The destruction of Vulcun didn't make Hikaru Sulu gay, but it did result in a different child being born to Sulu's parents than in the Prime Universe, whom they gave the same name and raised the same and had similar life experiences.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  2. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Well, the Mirror Universe is a whole 'nother can of worms.
     
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  3. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    I remember the day when us SW fans used to snub out noses at your petty ST canon arguments. You had a reboot. We had sourcebook duct tape. And it worked, damn it. We treasured our leaky splintering frankencanon like a well-loved ragdoll. Until it was replaced with the Disney version.

    But I honestly think diversity is why a lot of old EU characters aren't coming back though -- not because there's no room in the new canon, but because when there was "diversity", they were stereotypes.
     
  4. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    That's something that's really great about Trek. You revive the characters from a 1960s TV show for a modern-day movie and if someone in the board room with only a passing familiarity with the franchise says "Wait shouldn't we update it for modern day sensibil---" everyone else can be like "No dude it's already there."
     
  5. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    The Mandalorian: Deborah Chow Reveals the Inspiration For the (redacted due to spoilers) Rescue
    The first female director of a live-action Star Wars story brought her fa
    ther's love of Hong Kong action to the fight.


    (The linked article discusses that thing from The Mandalorian we're all still treating as a spoiler, even if you can't scroll very far through your Twitter feed without seeing something about it)

    "Chow said the episode takes a lot of inspiration from 1961’s Yojimbo — Akira Kurosawa’s classic about a nameless ronin who finds himself in a town plagued by competing crime lords. She also credits her love of Asian cinema to her late father. 'My dad was Chinese, and he was a huge movie fan, when I grew up he was watching Hong Kong action films. So it kind of gets that reference,' she said, citing John Woo’s 1992 cop-and-kid thriller Hard Boiled as another reference."

    "Chow’s work on The Mandalorian makes her the first woman and the first filmmaker of Asian heritage to direct a live-action Star Wars story. 'Even when I first got this job, it didn’t even cross my mind. I don’t know what fairyland I was in, to not think this was significant. But I went through prep and it didn’t occur to me until somebody said it on one of the first days of shooting.'

    She noted that Bryce Dallas Howard directs episode four of the show, and the second unit team has several female directors. 'It didn’t occur to me that I was the first one to leap.'

    'I want it to be about the work. I want to be a good director, not a good female director, not a good Asian director. But by the same token, obviously, my career path and the representation… it is important. It is meaningful. I want to see more women directors and I want to see more directors of color.'”
     
  6. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    *stumbles into his own thread a week late*

    This is also very relevant in SW--any given character is very, very unlikely to randomly proclaim their orientation in plot material, so there are huge numbers of major characters who could very easily be portrayed for the first time as gay or bi or ace or what have you without going against any existing canon. Look at Lando, a character from 1980, in Solo--I would argue that Jon Kasdan didn't go nearly far enough to actually portray him as pansexual but the fact that he was even able to think of him that way despite his, let's say enthusiastically heterosexual, portrayal in ESB shows that all manner of cards are still on the table with the existing stable of characters.

    Just to piggyback on vnc's post, we can and have debated a great deal about whether RL demographics even should be the barometer for GFFA demographics, but even if you grant that--SW characters are and always have been 60-70% straight white men, which is biologically impossible. So we can disagree on that principle and still agree that we're not where we should be.
     
  7. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    I'm always amused by the idea that filmmakers are, like, looking at census data when deciding how to cast a movie and not just unthinkingly reproducing what came before based on historical exclusion.

    Anyway,
    Tora's mom has the same accent as the other Dozas, so I wonder if she and Imanuel are from the same planet, despite having fought on opposite sides of the war.
     
  8. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Has anyone watched the Dragon Prince on Netflix? It's a cartoon made by one of the head writer from ATLA, and despite it being a "kids' cartoon" like ATLA it has also handled mature themes. It has also shown (at last count) 3 same-sex romances, including on-screen same-sex kisses and 2 Queens who are married with a daughter. It's also rather racially diverse.
     
  9. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    My headcanon is that the Dozas are from Fest, like Cassian Andor.
     
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  10. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Part of me loves this, part of me is very cautious about creating a, like, "Space Mexico."

    OOOH!
    But what if Vanissa's maiden name was "Andor?"
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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  11. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    I was just going for, like, consistency in accents. Fest is a mountainous snowy planet, very dissimilar to Earth Mexico in that sense. Pantorans have South African accents, but Pantora certainly isn't Space South Africa, for instance.
     
  12. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Could be Space Peru or Space Sierra Nevada 8-} :p ;)

    When it comes to their clothing do I think of Russia.
     
  13. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    If this episode doesn't lead to a bunch of fan-written Dozas backstories, fanfiction was a mistake.
     
  14. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    I'm actually on the "accents in Star Wars make zero sense" train, so I'm not exactly in favor of grouping completely different characters together on accent alone, let alone based on ethnicities. *stares at Shatterpoint*
     
  15. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    What happened in Shatterpoint?
     
  16. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Wherein it was revealed that the main black character of the prequels was from a planet where all the natives were black people. This of course in the Heart of Darkness pastiche, which adds even more unfortunate implications.
     
  17. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    THEY CLONED JANGO FETT'S ACCENT.

    CLONED IT.
     
  18. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    I didn't mind that so much in Shatterpoint because it wasn't, like, "everyone from here is this particular earth culture." They were just the descendants of a small group of Jedi castaways. I do, however, think the intention here is to point to some kind of link between the Dozas.
    I more meant that I'd love to avoid a situation where any actor or character with a Mexican accent is automatically assigned Fest. The idea of those two characters being related makes me very excited, though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  19. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Look, Jango had a lot of weird conditions.
     
  20. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Mandalorian:
    shoutout to the purehearted simple village widow who was willing to love the mandalorian for his character and kindness no matter how ugly he was under the helmet, blissfully unaware that this is what he looks like

    [​IMG]

    lol poor thing i hope she never finds out
     
  21. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    In terms of this particular criticism of Shatterpoint, I guess a question has come to mind.

    Do people want Star Wars to represent the world we live in, or just our neighbourhood of the world we live in?

    Realistically, in our world, you can travel to an African nation where virtually everyone is black, and certainly all the decedents of the original population there are black.

    For myself(a Canadian)I can hop in a vehicle, travel a few hours north and be in communities that are made up of 100% indigenous people.

    Why is the Star Wars galaxy having similar places a problem?
     
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  22. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Simple- it's not as interesting, and it's not taking full advantage of the setting. Humans are the dominant species in the galaxy, and it's pretty accepted that they come in the light tan to dark brown color spectrum. It's bad enough that aren't a whole ton of non-white main or secondary characters in the PT, but saying the most prominent black character is from a planet of black people is unnecessary pigeonholing.

    I mean sure, most of the human planets in the galaxy are "white people planets" for out-of-universe reasons, so why can't there be black people planets. But it's not very realistic from an in-universe perspective for such segregation to exist. I know we have to pick and choose which parts of this space opera fantasy can be realistic or not, but I feel the GFFA shouldn't be a place where humans of different color have been kept apart from each other.
     
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  23. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Well it's realistic if they're not in a cosmopolitan city/planet.
     
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  24. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    The latest episode of The Mandalorian gives us a similar question, which is
    the human genome can only express itself so many ways, so on a planet where Earth nations don't exist, it can sometimes make sense to put people who "look" "similar" to each other together as the same "people."
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  25. Darth Corydon

    Darth Corydon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Death in both marvel and Dc appears as a Woman most of the time. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]