PT Thoughts/General Discussion: Attack of the Clones

As far as the films go, they are the seps.
They are what we see of the seps and in RotS they are called "The separatists leaders."
So in the films, they are what we see of the seps and they are the leaders of said seps.

So the films show the seps as being largely the TF, Banking clan, Techno Union etc.
Esp since Dooku says that with the support of the TF and others, the seps will become much larger.

Also, the crawl says that the seps have been causing problems, unrest and disrupting the peace.
So much so that the Jedi can no longer keep the said peace.
And Mace says that if negotiations with the seps fail, then there won't be enough Jedi to PROTECT the republic. Implying that the seps will attack and also implying that they have some sort of military capabilities already.

As for Dooku, given what he said, the plan to make a droid army has been going on for some time.
If he started this plan before or after the senate started debating an army for the republic is not made clear.
But what is clear is that he isn't doing this to have an army as deterrent in case the republic gets an army and threatens to use it. He plans to attack an unsuspecting republic, which does not have an army at this stage.
At least as far as the other people at that table knew.
And all of those people were totally onboard with attacking the republic unprovoked and overwhelm the Jedi and make their demands at gunpoint.
Did the other "normal" seps knew about what Dooku was doing?
That he was building a droid army and planned to attack the republic, regardless if the republic had an army or not?
If they did know and nothing implies they didn't. Then they too are fine with what he is planning to do.
Attack a weak republic and enforce their demands.

Padme had no idea about this so her view of the seps is questionable.
Plus she said that Dooku was trying to murder her. And he is the leader of the seps.
Did they know about that? Were they ok with that?
If yes then the seps are willing to murder advocates of peace.

Except we aren't told why they want to leave or what their demands are.
Dooku says that they will make the senate agree to all their demands but what those are we don't know.

And if the film wanted to show a difference between the TF, Techo union and all those and the "regular" seps then you DO need to show that.
If the film wanted to establish that the TF and co are not representative of the average seps and that the some of the seps are "good people".
They that has to be shown.
Otherwise the film is only showing the TF and co as the seps and thus creating an image of them as being what the seps are like.

Take ANH, we see several imperial officers and they are not all the same but are any of them shown to be "good guys"?
Not to me.
So what image is ANH trying to establish about the empire?
That they are not nice people, they are the "bad guys".
So if you try to argue that these officers are just the "bad apples" of the empire and that the other high ranking members in the empire are not like that.
Then you have no basis for that.
And if you argue that the film is NOT presenting the imperials as the bad guys, just those we see and they are not supposed to be representative of the empire as a whole. Then that is not an argument that I can buy.

Lucas made a choice to show the seps as mostly the TF and co and they are called seps leaders in RotS.
So then they are examples of the seps and since they are the only examples we see, then the audience is totally justified in thinking that the TF and co are representative of the seps as a whole.
Arguing that the "regular" seps are totally different and not at all what the TF and co are, that has no basis in the films.
And if the films wanted to establish that then it does need to be shown.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

Yes, that contrast is perfect. Actually those scenes on Naboo are the last, or rather only time SW actually gets "romantic". After that it's just short moments in an environment of chaos and tragedy, that includes the OT, which doesn't have real romantic moments. Not that I like romance per se, but in SW, which gets very dark later, those few moments of light-hearted innocent romance are a sharp contrast to the conflict that would soon appear. Most of all for Anakin, who would very soon afterwards find huge grief on Tatooine. I don't get how people have nothing good to say about the Naboo scenes. They are perfect and fit in very well into Anakin's tragedy. His turning evil would have much less impact if we had not seen him enjoying some moments of innocence and happiness. His later life became pure hell. He never had a happy carefree childhood, nor did he get a chance to enjoy his marriage. From the beginning, he was either away from his wife in battles or troubled with nightmares. So why not show us some rare instances when he was happy? That's why I like the fireplace scene. It really highlights Anakin's inner conflict and pain. ROTS, not to mention the OT, would have been much less effective without it.

 

Without doubt the worst star wars film but kinda like it anyway it has a great opening sequence and some of the best set pieces but just some really bad stuff too. This was obviously rushed and was too early for digital CGI technology

 

I wish I could visit Naboo. Great place to have a country home.

The picnic scene and she teases him about her first kiss hehe.

 

AOTC is probably one of my favorite SW Movies. top 3 for sure. Gets a lot of flack though I truly think its a very underrated film. Deffinetly some of the best action scenes in the saga.

 

When this film first came out in theaters, I LOVED it. Then again, I think it's mainly cos those were my first days as a "hardcore fan." As more material came out, my enjoyment of it dwindled and it remained in my bottom few in terms of ranking. But I'm now rewatching all the SW films to get ready for December, and I gotta say-there are some really classic moments in this film, when taken in the scope of the whole saga. And for any weak dialogue or cringeworthy moments, IMO there are FAR more amazing moments to enjoy in this film: The Coruscant speeder chase, everything on Kamino, Anakin and Padme on Tattooine, and of course the battle of Geonosis up until the end. I even like the air of mystery behind everything. Probably though one of my favorite things about AOTC was that this was the film that really delved into the everyday life of the Jedi order, and their activities and skill during their heyday-which is now a time forgotten. It doesn't stand all that well on its own, but when taken as a connecting middle part of a trilogy, it's great.

 

Attack of the clones has a weak first act, in my opinion. The opening scene with the failed assassination attempt of padme really fell flat. Absolutely no tension, at all. It's embarrassing. But once Obi-wan and Anakin start taking off with the speeder chase then things start playing out better with alot less clunkyness -- even though awkward moments still abound. But they're cope-with-able, without killing the movie for me.

 

I just rewatched Attack of the Clones as I watch all the saga films in preparation of The Rise of Skywalker. WOW! I can't believe how much I really do love this movie. Sure, there is plenty of cringe moments, but the story is so powerful/good. GL truly had an amazing vision when he was crafting the story for the PT. This movie gets sooooooo much unnecessary hate, just because of some cheesy dialogue at times. People will literally look past an amazing story and film, just because someone does't like sand. SMFH. I really loved watching this movie again for the first time in two years!!!

 

The good:

Obi-Wan (yes, even with the one-seated ship debacle )

The scenery (I’ve warmed up to CGI in the prequels as a whole, though not quite as much in the OT)

The politics and Sidious’s scheme

the Battle of Geonosis

While I prefer the look of OT Yoda, I’ve never had a problem with him using a lightsaber. Enjoy the climactic lightsaber duel


The mix of TPM’s lightheartedness and the dark tone of ROTS. Is more than adequate as a transition into a bleaker era.


I’ve also warmed up to Hayden Christensen’s performance (especially on Tatooine), though it still isn’t one of my favorites

Padme is consistent with her strong, determined TPM self while still showing another side to her character

The not-as-good

Some of the dialogue

Anakin is still a little creepy, though nothing next to a certain relative of his....

The pacing in the first and second acts isn’t quite right

Not enough Dooku

 

The whole sand thing maybe isnt the "best" dialogue ever but its real! For one: its Anakin we are talking about, a guy who has lived on a dessert planet as a child. Naturally he HATES sand. Ask Luke and Rey, they'll agree. Second: this is young man who doesnt know how to interact romanticly with women at all. We all where that boy and trying to make some kind of small talk to a girl to feel more self secure and self asured. Its what we do in situations like this.

 

I always looked at the sand line as him reflecting on his childhood too. Especially since he grew up as a slave and in Episode I, he mentioned how he wanted to see every system of planets. So sand represents his "home" that he wanted to get away from.

 

For me the sand line is pretty brilliant and one of my favorite moments in the trilogy. As mentioned before, it's supposed to feel awkward and 'cringey' that's entirely the whole point. We've all been that person, right?

The important aspect here is that's its a so cringey it's good moment. Or let me just say, so good it's good.

Now, what I feel gets missed most is this, and I think it's where the genius comes in; Anakin may or may not actually dislike sand (he doesn't say hate), the sand isn't the point here, it's merely a segue he thinks up on the spot as a way of conveying to Padme how he thinks she is soft etc. via going off the contrast between their two home planets (which is an important motif of the PT). It's hella cute, kind of brilliant, and as I've said before in the unpopular opinions thread, good game.

Padme has probably been fed typical, over-confident pick-up lines by sophisticated older guys for years. Now here she is with this handsome, brave young man who genuinely likes her so much he is willing to be vulnerable to the point of saying the most cheesy things -and- without being self-concsious about it. She is smart enough to see how unsophisticated the line is, but she also sees how genuine Anakin's heart is. This is why it all works so well.

The line itself isn't even the point here, either.

And the way he smiles like Sebastian Shaw does to Luke when she looks up at him is just shimmering. And gets me in the feels every time I get to that scene in RotJ.

All in all its a very nice, organic character development piece for both of them, and I couldn't imagine it any other way.

It also serves as a pointed contrast between Han & Leia's courting scenes, which I would believe is also part of the point.

 

Couldn't have said it better!

 

I don't even understand why the go-to defense of the line is that it's "supposed" to be awkward. I don't see how it's awkward. Yeah, if you're on a date and out of nowhere you start monologuing about how much you hate sand, that would be weird and awkward. But in the context of the conversation they're having, it makes perfect sense. Padme isn't stupid. She knows Anakin is talking about how rough his childhood was and how he wishes it could have been more like hers. She knows Anakin is kind of half-jokingly talking about how irritating sand is as a proxy for what it was like growing up as a slave on a harsh desert world where there's nowhere to go and no possibility for a better life. She's not standing there going, "What the hell is this weirdo talking about?" She knows exactly what he means, and she feels sympathy for him.

This whole "I don't like sand" thing has been blown out of all proportion by people who mostly didn't understand what the line actually meant.

 

“And not just the men. But the women, and the children. They’re animals! And I slaughtered them like animals. I hate them!!!!.”....”Padme? Where’ve you gone?”
*faint sound of a ship taking off outside*
Padme thinking ‘laters psycho’

 

Its a bad line. But Hayden delivers it so perfectly that it doesnt really bother me. And he should be given more credit for that.

 

The endless memes about "I don't like sand" will never cease to amuse me.

 

AOTC has great action.

Courascant speeder chase.
Fight with Jango on Kamino.
Asteroid field chase.
Jedi in the arena.
Battle droid factory fight.
Duels with Dooku.

It’s a fun time.

 

And in spite of all the action setpieces, most of the movie doesn't have any action at all: after the chase of Coruscant (which is about 10 minutes long), the movie literally doesn't have any action for more than 30 minutes. Then two action sequences with Obi-Wan and Jango, and then another half-hour without any action! The movie takes its time to develop the story, the plot and the atmosphere of each location, and it benefits from it.

 

Indeed. The Geonosis content had real atmosphere too, along with Kamino. Two planets that captured my imagination as a kid and work wonders in video games.

 

After all this time it’s the one that’s most engaging to me. It has an engaging story and by far the best worldbuilding (universebuilding) of any Star Wars movie. I’ve always felt that this movie “opened up “ the SW universe more than any other SW movie.