ST Luke Skywalker/Mark Hamill Discussion Thread [SEE WARNING ON PAGE 134]

The fear of the Dark Side? The impression I got from Luke in ROTJ is that he understands he always has a choice (no matter what Vader deluded himself into believing) and that his faith in the goodness of others rewards him in the long run.

For Luke to suddenly fear that Ben would become evil is out of character for the man who redeemed Vader. More plausible is that Luke foolish believed he could redeemed Ben from the Dark Side, only to discover too late that Ben wants to be in the Dark Side and that mistake cost him his Order and maybe someone he loved. Then we can buy that Luke has become cynical or even afraid of the Dark Side because Ben did more than just betray his faith. He nearly drove Luke to the Dark Side closer than even Vader's attempt.

That would have made a lot more sense for Luke Skywalker.

 

Also it’s obvious at least to me that Luke didn’t get rid of everything he probably should have from the old Jedi. From TROS we know he got rid of the no attachment rule at least

 

Maybe the reason Leia stopped her training was, partly, the no-attachment rule - she wanted to raise Ben herself for the first 10 years, and stay married to Han?

 

Yoda and Obi-wan went into exile because they believed it was the right course of action for the hope of the galaxy. Whereas Obi-wan defeated Anakin (and no doubt believed he was as good as dead), Yoda failed to defeat Sidious in his best shot at it. In Yoda's judgement, here was nothing more they could have done except throw their lives away going after Sidious again. He and Obi-wan went into exile with a plan for the future in the Skywalker twins, and they continued to be guided by the force.

Luke simply abandoned the galaxy to its own devices and stoppered his ears by closing himself off from the force. He had no plan to ever help; he allowed the tragic loss of a dozen students to cripple him, and so left countless lives to the mercy of the rising dark side. These characters are not real, they're written characters. Like I said, I'm fine with the idea he was fearful of Ben's future and had a moment of weakness (though it was severely underwritten and therefore hard to empathize). What I'm not fine with is Luke abandoning his friends and innocents when that is the complete opposite of what the Luke we knew would do.

 

@LastSonOfAsgard If I could like your post a hundred million times, I would. I literally welled up with joy, hope, and sadness at different points as I read that. I don't think the complaints against ST Luke could ever be more eloquently stated than that.

 

In my opinion, Luke's decisions and mistakes are Rian Johnson's strong points as he made the character much more human and less of a superhero. We already saw him becoming a man and a jedi in the original trilogy. 30+ years have gone and some people expected a wise mentor that would sacrifice in a face to face duel. Come on, we already got that in Episode IV! That was Obiwan's role, not Luke's. And Johnson loves so much the character that he offered him a different story - instead of an Obiwanish rehash - and a beautiful send off.
Luke was/is/will always be the greatest Jedi Master and he won on Crait by using the Force and by becoming the perfect embodiment of the Spark. That's quite a tribute to the character. Still, some over here would have prefered a sort of "Obiwuke", totally pointless IMO.

 

To be clear - Lukes’ green light sabre .. the one he built himself and which defined him as a true Jedi .... the one seen for all of 0.2 seconds in the entire ST is “with the guardians on Achtoo’ ? Why on earth is Anakin’s light sabre being buried with whatever we are told Leia made..? Shouldn’t Rey have gone back to Achtoo and buried Luke’S actual light sabre instead?

I’m not annoyed that Luke didn’t swing his light sabre or anything. I’m just puzzled by why it was decided to pretend that it wasn’t an important part of his legacy.

 

He was never worthy of the title of "Jedi Master" as he is a complete failure at training anyone or accomplishing anything. That`s why they made Leia a Jedi Master and Rey a Force God.
He also didn`t win anything on Crait. Rey saved those people. And the little dig to Kylo`s pride wasn`t that bad. He got over it. As for being an "inspiration", not according to TROS where noone was inspired to join the Rebellion and it was never mentioned. Lando apparently was that inspiration.

In the ST Luke is only good for being the blame figure to excuse poor little "Ben" and then being a useless coward. I cared nothing when that guy got killed of and "became one with the force". If he had died in ROTJ, it would have been better for the character in this continuity.

 

Luke is talking about how fear lead to anger and toward the dark side. He shut the force off entirely and stayed on the island because he was afraid of who he’d become in that moment despite years of working at dark side control. That fear lead to anger at the Jedi teachings and this cycle he’d observed. He was afraid that the Jedi were a part of this cycle of training force users and losing them to the dark side.

In both Rey and Luke’s cases it began with a fear related to letting the dark side in and being afraid of what that said about themselves and their respective identities as people who felt that they were trying to do good in the world.

 

Thank you for this. Good stuff.

 

Luke was awesome in TLJ and Mark gave his absolute best performance he has ever given. Luke was the embodiment of a Jedi, and it was really clear that was the Luke post ROTJ.

Then in TROS it’s like they and Mark just didn’t care. The CGI for his ghost looks bad (way to blue) and they give him this awful wig. I was really thrown off by all this, and then Mark just didn’t seem into it this time.

 

This seems like a plot hole to me. PH is trying to clear it up in... a Visual Dictionary? But the saber isn’t physically in either TLJ or RoS. In TLJ it’s only an illusion. Rey even goes to Achoo in RoS and gets Leia’s random saber we’ve never heard of. It’s like JJ forgot the green saber exists. What’s especially annoying about it is without explanation, unless I missed it, Anakin’s destroyed saber from TLJ is magically fixed here. Why did Rey fix that one and not get Luke’s? Or make the yellow one from getgo? The saber situation is just really strange, putting aside how much of an eyeroll it is to me that Rey is burying two perfectly good lightsabers.

 

Obi wan came back and faced Vader one last time. I don't think any of Luke's mistakes were out of character, but the one thing that is out of character is still choosing to stay away when he learns that Han was killed. Wanting to end the Jedi and the cycle is fine but there's no way Luke would continue to stay away once he heard his best friend and brother in law was killed and his sister could be next. There's no turning back the clock but the Luke we know would do more to prevent further damage than just serve as a decoy and check out. That's where RJ screwed up.

 

JJ purposely ignored it as he did many other events that happened in ROTJ and the PT. The 2 movies he made are littered with choices that speak to him only liking ANH and ESB on a superficial level and ANH Han. I also think he gets pleasure in destroying the rules/physics of the universe. While I enjoyed his first Trek movie initially his disregard for the universe he is working in became grating over time and is now down right contemptible for me. I would be very hesitant to see anything he makes in the future.

At least with Trek they are able to just go back to the original timeline. We are stuck with the “Luke” he laid the ground work for in TFA and did nothing to even partially redeem in TROS.

 

I disagree. That would make Lukes return grounded in revenge.

 

Why? How is protecting his family grounded in revenge? How is defending the defenseless the way all Jedi did grounded in revenge? Is everyone in the resistance fighting to end evil doing it out of revenge? What makes you think revenge has any bearing in this process at all?

 

The blue saber is a meta symbol for the skywalkers. after all it was Anakins and was passed down to Luke. its the skywalker saga and its the legacy saber.

JJ did not forget the green saber since it still appears in the flashback of Luke and Leia. its just the green saber is not important to the wider picture. while the blue one was used by both Anakin and Luke.

 

The ST does have a weird undercurrent of a theme that it’s just as bad as being evil to fight back. This is an idea that is very inconsistent and it comes and goes, but it’s there throughout the ST. Both Rey and Luke at different times are used for this message. Of course, DJ’s pointless lecture on armament purchases made the same “point.” It’s a fundamental failure imv to understand that Jedi are warrior monks.

So lightsabers as practical tools has just been retired as a concept then? That must have been around the time lightsaber duels became exclusively metaphors for sex.

 

Just imagine if she were Rey Kenobi....


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Because you frame it as he MUST die. The projection killed him. Actually going there did not have to.

Hell, even the projection didn't have to. TLJ could have ended with him raising the X-wing himself. I think Luke should have survived, especially when they knew CF had died IRL.

 

In my head canon he had already transferred some of his life essence over time and space into Leia when he sensed her on life support earlier. He reconnects to the force, connects with her, her heart rate seems to improve on the monitor, and she says his name and wakes up.

He was in a weakened state if so, just as Rey was after healing the snake & Ben, and so his final sacrifice on Crait to buy time for the Resistance took all of his life force left.

In fact, an underrated aspect of IX in support of VIII is actually the continuation of powerful light side force use taking so much out of the force user that they have no choice but to become one with the force since they will never be the same again following the force use. That... or risk sacrificial death. Just as Kenobi did to remove the revenge kill from Anakin and inspire Luke on his journey.

 

Perhaps better put would be revenge in the form of personal vendetta. In the film Luke does return. It isnt like what is said to him and what he learns does not play a part in this. However, it is that of the greater good.

He will not fight, and does not.

 

A vendetta is the same thing, which is nothing close to what anyone is referring to. A personal stake is not a vendetta. Everyone in this fight has a personal stake in one form or another. Luke ALWAYS fought when then the lives of his friends were on the line. Not metaphorically. Not in "spirit".

Luke showed up.

What Luke ultimately did in TLJ was not Luke, no matter what mental gymnastics you try to use.

 

He looked like a zombie in TROS

 

I might be OK with that if the saga didn't already show that force whispering across the galaxy didn't do any more damage to your life force than a Jedi mind trick. Luke force whispered to Leia in ESB that led her to come back and get him when he lost to Vader. Vader force whispered to Luke too shortly after. Didn't drain the life force out of either one.

RJ started something that's already gotten out of control. Jedi just dropping dead left and right from using force powers.