ST Episode IX Box Office Discussion

Possibly. But I don't think things always move like that. I just don't. Hunger Games 2 was well received by everyone. Made tons of money. The next movie didn't do as well. So did 2 poison 3? Well thats not possible right? People keep trying to make complicated things into simple things. And as other pointed out Empire made more adjusted to inflation than Jedi. Not logical unless empire poisoned Jedi I don't know. The dark knight made more than the dark knight rises. Did the Dark Knight poison the Dark Knight Rises?

 

I think you missed the line


THREEPIO
Sounds dangerous.

LEIA (to Han)
I wonder who they found to pull that off

Not because he is brave but because he was crazy enough to do that. It's because he is cocky enough to believe he will do it. He will rise to an occasion

 

Hunger Games 2 made 865 million worldwide. Hunger Games 3 made 755 million worldwide. Only a difference of 110 million.

The Dark Knight Rises made 77 million more worldwide than The Dark Knight.

TLJ making 700 million less than TFA is a huge decline.

 

No its not. Return of the Jedi made 650 million dollars less in inflation adjusted dollars than ANH. Huge Decline.https://www.the-numbers.com/box-off...movies/cumulative/all-time-inflation-adjusted and thats just in domestic. I can look up international if you want and it won't be pretty. Just did look it up. ANH made almost 3 times the amount ROJ did internationally. Huge decline. Literally looking at those numbers ROJ was a massive failure if you compare those two movies. So honestly people should just think a little more.

 

The Dark Knight Rises opened slightly bigger unadjusted domestically than The Dark Knight (TDK had a bit of a cliffhanger ending with Batman on the run, but TDK's opening was also boosted by the Joker/Heath Ledger factor intrigue which was teased by the end of Batman Begins), it had a theater shooting domestically while it increased internationally (China vs. no China as well). The finale rush effect reduced its stamina and possibly word of mouth wasn't quite as strong - at least where I lived through it posting on Batman threads.

 

I don’t like looking at adjusted box office numbers because the average movie fan don’t care, don’t know, and quite frankly only look at what it made without extra......let me explain how this kind of stuff. Trust me I’ve tried and been told so what. A movie that made $380 million at the box office in 2005 is what it made. If a movie in 2019 made $427 million it surpasses it and that’s that. Yep, I’ve gotten that kind of answer. Regardless of whatever drops, with the exception of Solo, Disney Star Wars movies unadjusted have done way better than what came before. It’s hard to argue what’s actually good or bad when these movies are making money that it’s predecessors really hadn’t made. We know that Star Wars is more than just movies, since with all its merchandising it’s made ........what something over $45 billion and counting in its 42 year history of the franchise? Very hard to really call Star Wars a failure.

 

Why are you using inflation? Not even the Hollywood trades use it. If they did, Gone With The Wind would forever be the #1 movie of all time.

 

You don't even have to look at adjusted numbers to see the difference between a new hope and return of the Jedi. A new hope made 775 million worldwide, 6 years later ROJ made 475 million worldwide. That is a massive drop and the end of a massive trilogy. But people think all of this is something new and are going wacky.

 

I just posted real numbers in 1977 a new hope made 775 million world wide. 6 years later ROJ made 475 million worldwide. That is a 48 percent drop. So how is that possible. The final to the biggest trilogy of all time had a 48 percent drop. You are talking an end to a trilogy that was the mother of all trilogy. The emperor, the death of Vader. 48 percent drop. And that isn't factoring in inflation cause if you did and inflation was super high at the time it would be even more brutal.

 

I think the “third film making more than the second in the trilogy” already occurred sort of.

TFA made most, then rogue one less, then TLJ more than rogue one. Maybe the Star Wars fatigue is real and a yearly Star Wars movie feels less like a big event/end of a saga since more are coming.

 

You're looking at all the theatrical re-release totals, which is deceptive. Here are the worldwide totals for the films original theatrical run.

Star Wars: 503
The Empire Strikes Back: 400
Return of The Jedi: 374

 

But let me tell you this, after looking at some the videos on cut content for the Tros and the different cuts out there each as bad as the one before it’s a miracle this movie even made any money at all

 

Even if what you just posted is accurate. Thats a 30 percent drop from ANH. This is the biggest trilogy of all time the end of an era. And Not only did the 2nd movie drop off from the first. The 3rd movie dropped off from the 2nd. And again thats not accounting for inflation at the time which was massive nor is it accounting for how many more theaters there were in 83 compared to 77. Wow looks kind of familiar. The numbers I posted whether its re released or not show a huge interest in the first movie of the trilogy then movement down. People declaring this a disaster or crazy or other ridiculousness like you are just not thinking in a rational manner.

 

Not rational? I'm not the one moving goal posts in this thread to make themselves appear to be right.

 

The Dark Knight was not even released in China. So if you take out China the Dark Knight Rises is even a bigger decline.

 

Whats rational is not comparing box office of the last movie of these trilogies to the first and declaring this a disaster. And you did that. But you seem stuck on that. If you were on the internet back in 83 you probably would probably be screaming its all over how is it possible that the final to an epic trilogy had such a large drop off from the first movie. Star Wars is done and Lucas needs to rethink what he is doing his product is declining. This was his endgame and he blew it with the Ewoks or something.

 

Nope. I would be saying that about Empire. Remember, Empire was divisive in 1980. Even Rian Johnson remembers it being so.

 

TDK: $469.7M
TDKR: $580.1M + $52.8M China

But the point is that it's the openings that in part reflect upon the predecessors or the state of a cinematic universe and has less to do with the entire runs.

 

Its wonderful that the darknight rises did better internationally. But over all it did less than its predecessor. Like I said cut out China and your looking at even more. If the shooting effected it domestically ok. By 100 million dollars? Ok thats a debate. Point is sometimes even if a predecessor is highly acclaimed that doesn't mean the next movie will make more. There are tons of examples of this. So there is not always a logical progression with movies. I mean you can even look at Avengers. First movie massive. Next one large drop off. Thats not really logical. EVERYONE loved the avengers. One movie only carries onto the next so much. And it goes both ways. There are so many other factors in this. Sometimes people just go to see what the hype is about. AKA Dark Knight or TFA. Sometimes they just get a little worn out on the franchise. I mean even if TLJ was loved by everyone, and this new movie was to( which god knows in this day and age thats almost impossible) it wouldn't do TFA numbers.

 

Are you JJ Abrams in disguise???

 

I love the arguments that point to the OT or the PT as relevant as to what is happening now. As if what’s going on with the ST is OK because this example or that example happened in the OT or PT, so thus by extension, Disney is not going to be worried by the box office for ROS because <insert cherry picked example>.

The OT and the PT were made by an independent filmmaker, who with the exception of the first film, funded these movies with his own cash or with loans taken out in his name. He did it too mainly tell the story he wanted to tell, and put enough money in his pocket so that he was not at the mercy of large studios. He was not one of the, if not the, biggest media and entertainment conglomerates in the world looking to grow an IP that was bought for $4 billion into a bigger global brand to grow profits for the larger patent company.

How do we know this independent filmmaker wasn’t worried about brand damage or growing his movie into a global brand? Because nothing damages a brand, that’s based on a movie franchise, more than NOT PUTTING OUT any more movies... nothing says I don’t care about growing the brand into a global brand more than stopping making movies that are needed to grow it into a global brand! Lucas let the brand die. With the exception of a couple made for TV movies and a Saturday morning cartoon, Lucas let the brand go, and after 1985, Star Wars as a brand went dark. Until the early 90’s when it became apparent that he was ready to start making movies again.

Disney is not going to look at the OT for justification for the performance of its movies because their goals for the brand are a whole hell of a lot different than that of Lucas’s. Their goals are different, so thus, their approaches and expectations are different!

They are looking to grow Star Wars into an ever increasing global brand. So much so they invested billions more into their parks based on the brand. They are not going to look at the OT or the PT and say... well it’s ok that ROS made “x” and TLJ made “y” because the OT did this and the PT did that.

Disney is looking to grow this brand, to increase profits off this brand, cause that’s what they do! If with each release of one of their 2 hour commercials for the brand, is being seen by less and less people, if less people are willing to watch their commercial, it signifies that their potential profit for the brand is shrinking. They don’t care what the OT did! They don’t care what the PT did. They care about what ROS is doing, why is it doing it, what impact it has in the overall brand name, and if there are signs of weakness in the brand, how to fix it.

Iger isn’t sitting there and saying to the board, “well ROTJ technically made less than ESB, so we’re fine here”...

 

Number #1 the brand is growing Disney has its hands all over the place with this brand. I would guess half the subscriptions to Disney + are based just on the mandalorian. Or a large portion of it. Maybe not half. And number 2 Lucas didn't self fund all those movies. Fox was involved especially after the first one. I am so tired of this doom and gloom for Billion dollar movies and movies that have made 5 billion in 5 years whether they are up or down. Disney has a machine but they don't crank out movies by the boatload just for their brand. They do with Marvel movies. But most of their other franchises they run pretty slow and normal. Took them years to do an incredibles 2. They could be on incredibles 5 by now. At some point all of these brands have a high point. What are they going to do with Star Wars? Like cancel it or something? Get rid of it? I think some of you wish that would happen I don't know. But its not. Hey maybe all the doom and gloom people are right. Disney is mad at Star Wars its not making them any money the franchise is a failure now because of this and Solo. Any body on here want to make a bet that Disney won't sell the franchise in the next 10 or 20 years? Anyone? If its so bad for them, and they are so concerned maybe they should sell it to WB. I mean it doesn't seem to be working out I think that would be great for Disney. My god they may take a break with these movies its all over. Its only going to be #3 domestically this year behind two of their other movies. First it was oh Disney isn't happy cause the first made so much more than the last in this epic saga. Now its well sure ANH made a ton more than Jedi but it didn't matter cause George self funded them. Whatever. Im taking a break.

 

Please could you link to the data that shows the ‘brand is growing’, as I’d be interested in seeing that? Or is that simply conjecture on your part? Just in terms of your comment about Disney not selling Lucasfilm. I agree - I can’t imagine they will. Star Wars was probably their biggest competition, but now they can choose to moth ball it, break it up, or keep it bubbling under. Their overall strategy is much bigger than Star Wars, and I imagine they’ll be happy enough that Star Wars is no longer the competition. The power is truly with the mouse...

 

The brand is growing? How so? There is a bit of evidence that this is not true...

January 2018
https://wdwnt.com/2018/01/plummeting-star-wars-merchandise-sales-indicate-consumer-fatigue-brand/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortun...e-force-is-strong-but-retail-sales-arent/amp/

April 2019

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wegotthiscovered.com/movies/star-wars-merchandise-sales-declining/amp/

December 2019
https://www.wallstreethedge.com/hasbro-star-wars-toys-low-sales/213521/

Merchandise sales and box office are the key indicators as to how consumers are interacting with your brand... what is your evidence?

Actually yes he did self fund after ANH. It’s actually been pretty well detailed for decades now that he self funded ESB and ROTJ as well as the PT. 20th century Fox, after ANH, was only the distributors of the movies. And if I remember right, they actually paid Lucas for the right to be the distributors of Star Wars...something that he spoke to not that long ago. I believe it was the Charlie Rose interview.

Right... Incredibles only sees a movie every so often because the consumer demand is not there for it to be anything more than that. So is that your admittance to Star Wars consumer demand falling to the levels of Incredibles?

well than.. speaking for myself I never said Star Wars is a failure, or suggested they were going to sell it. Calling people “doom and gloomers” only attributes motive to what people say so you can dismiss it instead of listening. Should people accept what they think is bad Star Wars just so you can be happy? Should people ignore basic facts of what’s going on with the franchise and not talk about those facts lest somehow diminishing your mood?

 

Yeah like people didn’t want to see TLJ twice or 3 times verses I saw the force awakens like 5 times and I’ve seen the rise of skywalker 3 times so far will probably go 5 times I think you’ll see it do better than TLJ