ST How TROS Recontextualizes The Sith

TCW and the other things that Filoni has worked on are all part of the official SW canon.

 

Its Lucas' way of at least having the official star wars product share a similar message amd theme, but even Lucas himself has always said "theres the films and then everything else."

For example i dont think Darth Maul, in Lucas' mind, was thinking "oh yeah darth maul survives this and comes back later". I think Lucas recognizes that what he has created is loved so much that he allows other people, and the fans, to have fun with it.

 

Lucas brought Darth Maul back. Lucas told Filoni "We're going to have Darth Maul on the show, he's not really dead."

The Clone Wars team took it about as well as fan did. And then they had to figure out how in the hell they'd pull it off.

It makes sense in away that if Darth Maul, with the help of Mother Talzin, could hang on to life after being cut in half, that the Sith Master would have an even more powerful way to cheat death.

 

He still considers the films as a separate entity. You can find him saying that on more than one occasion, im sure.

 

Lucas considers the Clone Wars TV series the same entity as the films. That's what you find him saying.

 

Agree with you there, the Clone Wars seasons are canon but Lucas always said the movies are on a different level to the other stuff. So more canon than canon I guess.

Lucas was apparently very involved in Clone Wars though, so it is arguably the highest level of canon outside of the films.

Eta - To be fair I think Lucas was referring to the original EU when saying it was separate to the films.
I feel like he would say the Clone wars series was on the same level to generate more interest from fans. The six saga films are a rich tapestry, I wonder if he even considers the sequel trilogy canon...

 

Hes being modest, in the same way that he is with Indy and Empire and Jedi.

The stuff outside of the films is made for fans. He understands the cultural impact his films have had, and thus understands fans want more of his world because he they adore it. Its as simple as that. He greenlit Caravan of Courage. Thats official. The Holiday Special is official. Theres a lot of official stuff, but theres always been the films and everything else.

 

Caravan of Courage is not canon. People are mixing up terminology in here, though... what Lucas said before about the EU was valid then and fed into how there used to be levels of canon, where the movies were the top level. But when Disney purchased LFL, everything BUT the movies and TCW were made non-canon (also known as "Legends", which is the new name for the original EU). And everything going forward from that point, including the new novels and shows such as Rebels and Resistance, are also canon. And now, unlike before, everything is on just one level of canonicity.

 

True.

My post was just my opinion. To me the original six films are ultra-canon

 

The moment I learned they weren't telling Lucas' story, essentially his piece of art, it created a disconnect in that its now a story fabricated by different authors.

No disrespect meant to anyone, I just think it is now, and will be considered in the future, "Lucas' Star Wars and Disneys Star Wars".

 

How far back does it go with the Sith Master having earlier Sith Lords in him? Are we talking dozens of former masters? Hundreds? And over how many years or centuries do these voices stretch back?

 

OK, so let's get back on the Sith topic in here.

Edit: Thanks, @Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

 

It's either Darth Bane or 1,000 years before The Phantom Menace when the Sith go underground. The ability to transfer essense from Sith Master to Sith Master makes sense as the impetus for the Rule of Two.

Darth Bane starts the Rule of Two. Is Darth Bane the first Sith Lord to have his soul latch onto his apprentice? Or is Darth Bane the first apprentice to have his Master's soul latch on to him. And once the two Sith Lords are one and know the process works, do they being killing off the other Sith Lords?

 

Actually wanted to question this exact point. What is the point of the Rule of Two now, if the Sith are basically Highlanders?

Lets be conservative and assume that Bane is the first to figure this out. In that case, he has absolutely no reason whatsoever to establish a Rule of Two. The more Sith, the better. Teach many/all of them this ability, and wait for the inevitable bloodshed that the Sith embrace to take its regular toll. It won’t matter. The survivors will have the abilities, memories, skills, or whatever it exactly is that is transferred, regardless of whether its just one long train of master-apprentice pairs or thousands of contemporaries. It doesn’t matter if the wrong apprentice kills you, or if another master kills you. The victor will still be possessed.

Just through sheer weight of numbers, having a large number of Sith around means those that survive will have greater power than if there are only two. Not only that, but it increases the number of apprentices they can put between the masters and anyone who might kill them without being possessed and screw up the whole process.

Heck, even if its just to set up a bunch of patsies, Bane should be encouraging as many potential Sith as possible.

 

You have the Old Testament and the New Testament, of which their respective foundations are the Pentateuch and the Gospels.

Thats if Lucas still holds on to this view or even did so at the time of his retirement. He was heavily involved in The Clone Wars and Underworld.

 

My hunch is there is more to it than just knocking off the Sith Master and the Sith don't just except anyone. Only the best of the best can be a Sith, and it's possible only the best of the best are strong enough to have this ability.

It's quality over quantity. I think the wrong apprentice would be someone who is too weak to handle the power of the Sith. Really they are only looking for upgrades. So the apprentice only kills the master once the apprentice is stronger than the master. They don't trade down.

 

That doesn’t really fit with the stated reason for the Rule of Two, nor is it supported by any of the context we have. Clearly there can be many more than two Sith at any given time. They don’t necessarily need to let any force adept in, but they absolutely benefit from allowing more than two.

 

What is the stated reason for the rule of two?

 

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,23298-1,00.html

Now, the VD (Exogol section) goes to explain how the sith runes describing the rule of two are 'nearly identical' to some sith incantation denoting the nature the dyad. So, the rule of two and the dyad share some connection.

The Kylo Ren section states: 'in his mind probe of Rey, Kylo Ren feels an innate connection to the scavenger, unaware that they form a prophesized dyad in the force'

How could the rule of two denote a prophesized dyad? Maybe those 'nearly identical' sith runes refer to something nearly identical in english.
Rule means 'regulation' but also 'the act of ruling'. The rule of two would be also The Rule Of Two: a corule, a dyarchy. That's Vader in Bespin and also Ben/Kylo in TLJ and TROS. It's also,compared to the original sith rule, an increase of symbiosis: family -Skywalker- leaking through the cracks of a mask. According to Lucas, 'even when Anakin turns into Darth Vader, he is still the [prophesized] Chosen One'.

 

It is self evident that Bane’s concern was ensuring that there would not be so much internal strife as to allow for the Sith to destroy themselves or their heritage.

If killing each other is a way in and of itself to pass on their knowledge or live forever, however, then that concern is rendered irrelevant.

 

Can you think of any reasons the new info from TROS would not render the rule of two irrelevant?

 

It all plays out in my mind like this:

1. The Rule of Two was created by Darth Bane after he realized the following:
a) The Sith could never defeat the Jedi forever because they would never unify like the Jedi do. All Sith are inherently too power hungry to do this. That is why their great empire ultimately fell at the hands of the Jedi.
b) The Darkside could not be used to extend the life of a Sith's physical body indefinitely, or keep their essence from returning to the Cosmic Force after death.
c) The Darkside could be used to transfer one's power and essence into another body if that body is a strong enough conduit for the Darkside- but it involves the ritual Palps mentions in TROS.

2. The power and essence transfer that happens during the ritual isn't a typical possession though. The former master who gets struck down does have their power and essence transfer into their apprentice; however, they can't control the apprentice directly at first. It takes time for the master's essence to gain more influence in the mind of the apprentice, and as time goes on the apprentice starts to see this growing influence as a new connection to "the source of their power" just like Palps started to feel towards the time of ROTJ. Ultimately the essence of the former master leads the apprentice to finding the insight to take on their own apprentice and repeat the process. I believe that none of the Sith realize what is truly happening until the essences of the former Sith have gained too much control over them to stop it.

3. Despite their lack of unity in life, once the Sith are killed by their apprentices and join the collective Sith in the new host- their essences do become one- as they all need the new hosts to keep themselves from returning to the Cosmic Force.

 

Can you? Preferably without coming up with your own headcanon.