Amph "Engage!" - Star Trek: Picard Discussion Thread [Paramount+/CraveTV]

CBS is showing the first episode of Star Trek Picard free online:

https://www.cbs.com/shows/star-trek...4lcdoP9_MdR1I7D/star-trek-picard-remembrance/

 

Resulting in more viewers & subscribers. Very clever Picard Maneuver.

 

CTVscifi website has Picard episode 1 up for anyone in Canada, free to view like the CBS link is. anyway the episodes go live on Crave and CBSAA at 3 AM EST and 12 AM PT for anyone who is up around that ungodly hour, like me!

So episode 2!

Spoiler

two f-bombs! at least! First one is great, 2nd one not so much (but unexpected). Still don't know why Kirk didn't know the colourful metaphors, though.

And the Borg cube is The Artifact which is interesting that they've managed to find a Cube cut off from the collective and study even some members of the Collective (or the Unnamed as the one Romulan calls them). They mentioned a Borg in stasis for 14 years which sort of means the Cube can't be the ones from BoBW or First Contact, if only cuz those were longer ago. However, look at all those hordes and hordes people just waiting to be assimilated when it all goes wrong because THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!

I'm somewhat annoyed that the Tal'hair have their own Section 31 sub-section (the Kurztman is showing there) but they get a nice nasty monologue and apparently they hate synthetics because of a Deep Dark Secret that all Romulans share which is probably what led to the synths destroying Mars. Great teaser, though, very creepy and harsh. Maddox seems like he'll be the McGuffin of the season (hopefully he's actually still alive) and it turns out he was finally able to make his own synths which I guess they weren't viewed as "sentient" enough for Starfleet to be okay with it, or it's another one of Picard's "It wasn't Starfleet anymore!" gripes.

Interesting that they had a hologram at fleet HQ of the Enterprise and then Enterprise-D (skipping over the movie Enterprise versions aside from the C but they're both CBS and not Paramount ships) but lets just say it was randomized.

Looking closely, some Romulans have forehead ridges, some don't. Okay, I can deal. It's A answer, that's enough. Now why only the forehead ridge Rommies were the only ones we saw in the TNG era (and those 3 Enterprise episodes) can someone No Prize that please, k thanks.

And it's pretty much explicitly stated but that nasty "Vulcan" commodore is totally a Romulan.

They managed to talk around why Picard doesn't ask Riker, Geordi and Worf to come along and he just doesn't want to put them in a position of danger again, which I can buy. Also the spectre of Picard's mental syndrome from All Good Things raises it's head again, good callback and kind of a bummer.

Y'know, I don't know why this show is called Picard, I mean he's the main character and all but like all TNG-era Trek it bounces pretty freely among the subplots. Probably just a development title that stuck/sell more subs (which apparently worked). Star Trek: Hubris. There, that's a title. Cuz you don't eff with the Borg that apparently there's some that are still awake in the Grey zones, it'll all end in tears I just know it.

 

Ugggghhh this ****ing hack is obsessed with Section 31 isn't he?

 

That's the only thing that stood out aside from that, tonally and stylistically it's very different from Discovery. And there's freakin Patrick Stewart as Picard in there.

Spoiler

Conspiracy vibes is a little vague to be a specific trait but a secret organization inside a secret organization is a bit much. However, Romulans having wheels within wheels is not unsurprising but just use the dang Tal'Siar already not a secret organization inside that secret organization (to be fair it isn't Section 31, it's a Romulan version of it, I guess called....dangit have to google...Zhat Vash). Although the motivations of this inside the inside crew may be different, if that was really needed.

 

Hm, not as good as the first episode but then now that the (re)introduction to Picard is done, now its onto actually doing something. Or trying to do something.

Spoiler

I recognized Picard was living with Romulans but never expected they would be Tal Shiar. Or rather, that Picard would know they were Tal Shiar (them spying on Picard wouldn't have surprised me). Laris is a lot of fun, too bad it looks like she's staying behind.

What did the sign say? "5843 days without an assimilation"? Talk about morbid. Well, that Borg cube's just a time bomb waiting to go off. I think Voyager found an abandoned Borg cube once or twice and all that tech is tempting, but ugh. Not to mention having an android on board there and a supposedly fanatically anti-AI secret secret Romulan faction.

It hurt seeing Picard dressed down like that but then he was being presumptuous. And of course it can't be that easy for him to get back into space. Well, at least he doesn't have to worry about meeting Starfleet fitness levels anymore. Huh, an old Stargazer crewmate.

Not bad second episode. Things are still being set up so I'm eager to see when things will really get rolling.

 

Another good episode.

Spoiler

Kind of shocking though to see Picard dissed like that by a Starfleet admiral. Surely 14 years later they could see his mistake, if that’s what they think it was in context with his entire exemplary career. Her disrespect annoyed me. Loved the entrance to SF headquarters though.
Everything else was good. Only other quibble is that the Romulans are maybe a bit too dastardly & eevil in the way they speak with each other. I guess like they were in the older series, but nowadays it comes off as a tad cheesy. Can’t wait to see what’s to come.

 

Yeah. It was a good episode. The scene with the security guard at Starfleet Command was funny.

 

So regarding the old crew,

Spoiler

it’s now confirmed that Riker, Worf & LaForge are still around. Troi (along with Riker) is in a trailer I believe, so does that just leave Crusher as the only main cast member unaccounted for?Is it conspicuous that Picard didn’t go to her for medical clearance? Do we think that the neural syndrome is the one from All Good Things? If so maybe a bad relationship with Crusher, perhaps even a failed marriage has happened just as it did in that future.

 

Yeah, it occurred to me that that might be a semi-veiled AGT reference.

Spoiler

It occurs to me that maybe Picard didn’t want to go to Beverly for the same reason that he doesn’t want to drag in Riker/Worf/Geordie, because she wouldn’t say no to him and that might put her in danger. It could also be that she’s still on active duty and that also might raise red flags in various ways.

 

Great stuff in the second episode, I like what they're doing with this show. It's not especially cerebral like Star Trek usually is, but telling a long form story this way is fun, and I love how they are setting up the relationship between Picard and Allison Pill's character Agnes. It's moving pretty slow, I can't wait for next week!

I've been impressed by the production design, it all looks very good:

Spoiler

 

I think I have to cut back on the TOS and TNG I’ve been watching lately to prepare for this show. The tonal shift is too jarring. It’s fine to me that they’re doing something a bit different, but I think I need to adjust.

Spoiler

Federation villains in TNG always seemed so much subtler and smarter in their villainy. I like to swear myself so I have no issues with that, but I don’t really love a Federation antagonist essentially just going on a drunken sailor rant. She sounded so defensive and unimpressive. It makes everything feel a bit dumber.

I’m confused by the excessive Tal Shiar exposition. I think I need to rewatch it because I had screaming kids running around at that part and even with closed captioning I had trouble following. It seemed like a lot of dialogue saying very little. The Tal Shiar were a cover for a Romulan Section 31 that is motivated by a hatred for synthetics? Seems... odd to be so singularly motivated.

I loved the depiction of the Data-Lite on Mars. That was a fun and tragic scene, at least in terms of the Android. I’m really having trouble adjusting to Federation citizens talking like they’re on the CW or something. I’m fine with it in theory, but it’s not done being distracting for me.

Oh I also really liked the updated Starfleet uniforms. They looked very sleek and were a good homage, but they also didn’t look like spandex tracksuits. I appreciate that because... yeah lol.

I’ve decided they’re ignoring Lal and it pains me. I can’t understand why they would do that.

 

The way the federation is being presented in the show is bugging me. Specifically in regards to the Romulans.

It is a big deal to me that back during DS9 when the Klingons invaded Cardassia under the pretence that the Changelings had infiltrated the Cardassian government, that the Federation came out against the invasion and even helped protect the Cardassian government. If the UK invaded Iran tomorrow, the US would justify the actions because the UK is our ally and Iran is "bad." But not the Federation. The federation stood for what was right even when it was unpopular.

Spoiler

Which is why I'm beyond baffled that some 15 years later the Federation does a complete 180 and holds the position that the Romulans can get ****ed just cause some federation member races threw a hissy fit at the idea of doing the right thing. The federation is not a perfect entity but there's no justification for the federation to do a complete 180 when 15 years earlier we had a clear example of the Federation standing up for what's right when it was very unpopular for them to do so (the Cardassians were just as hated as the Romulans). I don't know why this is being done. Is this a media attack on the only portrayal of a good socialist society? Discovery certainly pretends that the Federation is space america and not a untopian socialist society. So what gives?

 

That was before the Federation (and it's allies) went through an all - out war where by the end if it, the Federation (via Section 31) was willing to commit genocide to end it. It would not and does not surprise me at all that the Federation may have become a bit more hard - lined, and a bit more, well, Trumpier since we last saw events in the Alpha Quadrant unfold at the end of DS9.

 

Agreed. Look at what they were willing to do in Insurrection for example. The Federation & Starfleet began compromising their principles long ago in the name of security.

 

I don't buy it because the Federation stood up to the Klingons post Borg incursions into Federation space, where the federation would have been terrified of a brand new enemy with larger military power. I don't buy this move by the Federation. It's completely out of character based on decisions we've seen the federation make on screen.

The federation doesn't get "Trumpier." The federation is not space america and has never been space america, based on what I described in my previews post.

 

My theory is that writers of today for whatever reason worship at the altar of creating conflict. Where there is a story, there must be conflict. If the Federation is a utopia, or close to one, this makes it harder for the unimaginative and uninspired to conceive of possible conflicts. Hence, the metamorphosis of a socialist utopia into "Space 'Merica."

 

Are you sure? Why does a story need anything? There's no rules to telling a story.

I mean, I had also made a point about the "unimaginative and uninspired," but you left that out of your quote. To me, it's the mark of a lazy imagination if you take one of the greatest strengths of a franchise like Star Trek and butcher it for the sake of conflict. I think if you prize and aggrandize conflict above all else in storytelling, then it's going to make you less creative than you could be.

 

Spoiler

Think the Lal reveal might come around the end of the Season. We have only seen two episodes so far.

And the possible reveal of Romulans hating advanced A.I actually makes sense imo. Iirc we never saw advanced computer technology or replicators on Romulus during "Unification" for example.

There were still people with food stands selling soup...

 

All of these "rules" you're saying humanity has developed as we've gone along are subjective. You say conflict is at the very center of storytelling; I say, what about character? Theme? Vision? Emotion-- just the feeling of something? It's fine if some stories have conflict as either one of the things or the only thing at their center, but that's not a rule. Maybe it's a Hollywood rule. I do agree that a script that places a low priority on conflict would be as strange and unwelcome in La La Land as a Borg drone inside Starfleet HQ.

Users inside of this thread have voiced their dissatisfaction with the Picard story as it has been told so far. We are attempting to figure out why that dissatisfaction is there. The theory I put forth earlier names Hollywood orthodoxy as the culprit. And Hollywood has attempted, to a great degree of success so far, to codify that conflict is far more important and essential than it actually is, to the detriment of creative, innovative, and thrilling storytelling. It does not mean that conflict should not feature at all in this tv show or any other story-- it's going to be there, kind of like the ground in a game of tennis. It simply means that if you place a higher premium on other treasures of your story, instead of subordinating so much of it to conflict, you might actually succeed in telling a better, fresher story.

 

Yeah, Star Trek has always had conflict in it. It just wasn't until the 90's that the source of conflict came increasingly from the Federation/Starfleet and between the crew. I'd much rather that than the crew of whatever ship is the focus of the series being perfect. It's why DS9 is by leaps and bounds my favourite Trek series.

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