ST THE LAST JEDI mirroring (specifically AOTC/ESB/TLJ)

Top marks for effort but mirror-ing undortunately doesn't make the movie any better...

Unfortunately..

 

Just for TLJ or for the whole series?

 

Specifically the Last Jedi...

But overall I have been left disappointed by the ST...

 

Fair enough.

Im in two minds about it, particularly TLJ. But I generally enjoy the films.

I think the 1-6 mirroring was great because it was all Lucas. Well, taking into account a lot of existence of coincidental things of course.

 

Love all of these, please keep posting more and hopefully include TROS to soon?

Is there a thread that features these kind of posts for the entire Saga?

Reminds me of the Visual Symphony website which I was a contributor to back in the day

 

I'd like to add the bottom two images to your above selected post Hevy

Spoiler

The latter pic precedes the scene when Sidious says "your arrogance blinds you, Master Yoda". I link that to Luke's description to Rey about the Jedi which the former pic follows from TLJ "At the height of their powers, they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out".

The sun sets on the Jedi. And Luke's decision mirrors in a way, the way Senate agrees to the end of the Jedi (controlled by Sidious/Palpatine of course).

Just some thoughts.

MJ

 

Thanks @DarthWolvo23 .
Yes I will post a TROS thread when the DVD and blurays drop. That will probably be my last thread.

I know you have been posting mirrors since AOTC came out yourself. The visual storytelling thread inspired a lot of my ideas in '05.

I remember the Galactic Symphony site. That guy saw things, like a crazy amount of links.
I contributed to it a little as well.

 

Spoiler

ANH –
Obi-Wan: “The force is what gives a Jedi his power. It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together.”


ESB –
Yoda: “Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us... and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter! You must feel the force around you. Here... between you... me... the tree... the rock... everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship.”


TFA –
Maz: “I am no Jedi, but I know the force. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes. Feel it... the light... it’s always been there. It will guide you.”




TLJ –
Luke: “The force is not a power you have. It’s not about lifting rocks. It’s the energy between all things. The tension, a... balance that binds the universe together.”
Rey: “Okay. But... what is it?”
...
Luke: ‘Breathe... just breathe. Reach out with your feelings.”

"What do you see?"

Rey: “The island."

"Life."

"Death and decay..."

"...that feeds new life"

"Warmth."

"Cold."

"Peace."

"Violence.”


Luke: “And between it all?”
Rey: ”Balance. An energy. A force.”
Luke: “And inside you.”

Rey: “Inside me... that same force.”

 

@HevyDevy is there any thread that shows parallels between the films including the ST and the Star Wars Story films anywhere that you know of my friend?

 

Sorry man, I don't know of any that include the ST.

There was the ring theory essay and Galactic Symphony for 1-6.

And Ive posted a bunch of seperate mirroring threads, linked here - https://boards.theforce.net/threads/reference-thread-for-symbolism-and-mirroring.50042140/

 

Ha! Brilliant I clicked on the first thread and it was one I started years ago and forgot about

Thanks for providing all the links...will enjoy looking through them

 

Nice.



More text analysis


AOTC –
Anakin: “I know, but we also want to catch this assassin don’t we?”
Obi-Wan: “You’re using her as bait?”
Anakin: “It was her idea. Don’t worry, no harm will come to her. I can sense everything going on in that room.”

ESB –
Lando: “Vader doesn’t want you at all, he’s after someone called... uh, Skywalker.”
Leia: “Luke?”
Lando: “Lord Vader has set a trap for him.”
Leia: “And we’re the bait!”

TLJ –
Snoke (to Rey): “Young fool.... it was I who bridged your minds! I stoked Ren’s conflicted soul. I knew he wouldn’t be able to hide it from you. And I knew you were not wise enough to resist the bait.”


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



AOTC -
Anakin: “Protection is a job for local security, not Jedi. It’s overkill master, investigation is implied in our mandate.”
Obi-Wan: “We will do exactly as the Council has instructed. And you will learn your place young one.”

TLJ –
Poe: “You start an attack, you follow it through.”
Leia: “Poe, get your head out of your cockpit! There are things you can’t solve by getting in an X-Wing and blowing something up! I need you to learn that.”



ESB –
On Hoth Han turns of his communications because he doesn’t want to talk to Leia.
TLJ-
Poe during the Dreadnaught attack turns of his communications so he can’t hear Leia’s orders.

Later on Crait; Finn turns off his communications so Poe can’t order him not to make a suicide attack on the battering ram cannon.


Poe also has a problem with taking orders from Holdo, whom he thinks doesn’t have the Resistance’s best interests at heart.
It seems implied his bias is gender-based.
He eventually learns she had a plan for the Resistance’s survival after all.
Anakin (AOTC): “Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested of us.”



Poe is also shown echoing Leia and Holdo at a few points in the film probably indicating that he will take over as a Resistance leader after Leia.

Poe: “We need to get out of range of those Star Destroyers.”
...
“We need to what?”
Leia: “Get out of range of the Star Destroyer and the fighters will fall back!”


Holdo: “We are the spark that will ignite the fire that will restore the Republic. That spark... this Resistance, must survive.”
Poe (later): “We are the spark that'll light the fire that will burn the First Order down.


Leia: “What are you looking at me for? Follow him!”



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




AOTC -
Padme: “I can’t... we can’t, it’s just not possible.”
Anakin: “Anything is possible Padme, listen to me.”

ANH –
“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”
Luke: “It’s not impossible, I used to bullseye wamprats in my T-16 back home, they’re not much bigger than two metres.”

ESB –
Luke: “You want the impossible!”
...
Luke: “I don’t... I don’t believe it!”
Yoda: “That is why you fail.”

TLJ:
Leia: “They’ve tracked us through lightspeed.”
Finn: “That’s impossible..."
Leia. “Yes. And they’ve done it.”



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




AOTC -
Yoda: “Fought well you have, my old padawan.”
Dooku: “This is just the beginning!”
...
Yoda: “Master Obi-Wan... not victory. The shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun the Clone War has.”


TLJ –
Luke: “I’ve failed you, Ben. I’m sorry.”
Kylo: “I’m sure you are! The Resistance is dead! The war is over. And when I kill you, I will have killed the last Jedi!”
Luke: “Amazing. Every word you just said was wrong. The Rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi.”


The AOTC war beginning represents the galaxy is losing stability and will eventually dovetail into the Republic becoming an Empire. It's a negative statement.

The TLJ war however, like the OT war, is a necessary fight for freedom. Luke's words here are positive.

 

Fire symbolism (1)

Spoiler

TPM
Qui-Gon dies and some potential for Anakin's future is lost. Fire-light on character's faces is often associated with the deaths of major characters.

"What will happen to me now?"

"The Council have granted me permission to train you. You will be a Jedi, Anakin. I promise."







AOTC

Anakin courting Padme. Fire representing passion I believe.


"I will not let you give up your future for me!"

Anakin: "It wouldn't have to be like that. We could keep it a secret." ... Padme: "Could you live like that?" Anakin: "You're right. It would destroy us."

Anakin backs off after this scene. Until they think they are going to be killed on Geonosis, and it is Padme who announces her feelings for Anakin.



...............



Fire is again being associated with death when Shmi dies in her son's arms beside a fireplace.







Anakin takes a major step towards the dark side and revenge kills the Tusken village.







ROTS

Mustafar lava for the burning hate and passion of the dark side.














ROTJ

Everything comes full-circle with Anakin's funeral. Luke and Anakin made peace before Anakin died. Inverse of Vader's immolation in ROTS.

 

Fire symbolism (2)

Spoiler

Qui-Gon's funeral.

Yoda's death.






Ben Solo turns

 

Fire symbolism (final)

Spoiler

Kylo in TLJ possibly represents Rey's temptation to the dark side. She keeps her force-communications with Kylo hidden from Luke.
Kylo: "You're not alone." Rey: "Neither are you. It isn't too late."




Luke: "STOP!"

Luke blows open the hut. Opposite, yet similar, to Kylo collapsing the hut on Luke six years prior. The rain puts out the fire as Kylo's projection disappears.

Rey goes to Kylo acting on the vision she had when they touched hands.
Luke accurately warns her things won't go as she thinks.

Though Kylo spares Rey and kills Snoke, then temporarily fights alongside Rey against the Praetorian guards.

The red backdrop had kind of given Snoke and Kylo's scenes a "Wizard of Oz" vibe.

The implication is Snoke wasn't what he seemed.

As they fight Rey flings part of one of the guards at the red curtain and it catches fire.

Spoiler

As they fight the red fabric burns away and space becomes visible through the windows.







With the illusion of the backdrop gone, Rey and the audience realise it wasn't just Snoke that was a deception. The true nature of Kylo's intent is unveiled to Rey.

As fire rains down from above (mirroring Anakin/Vader and Padme on Mustafar) Kylo offers Rey a place beside him as rulers of the galaxy.

Both Kylo and Vader are rejected.




Padme: "You're a good person, don't do this!"
...
Padme: "Anakin, you're going down a path I can't follow."
///
Rey: "Don't do this Ben. Don't go this way."

Anakin and Padme are doomed to never reconcile, as Anakin's fear and greed destroy them both, as he stated the relationship would in AOTC.

Kylo and Rey hit an impasse here much like Anakin and Padme did, but Ben Solo will get another chance to learn selflessness in TROS.

 

Spoiler

Past of the Jedi

Future hope of the Jedi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spoiler

More Hoth / Crait







Tracks in snow / salt

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spoiler

Luke rejects Vader's offer of power and the Millenium Falcon escapes to lightspeed

Rey rejects Kylo's offer of power and she slams the Millenium Falcon door on him



Dice fade





Vader and Kylo spend their last scene in each movie alone with their thoughts.

 

Visions and premonitions leading to failure

Spoiler

AOTC
Anakin has repeated dreams of his mother’s pain.

He acts on the visions; leaves his mission location (protecting Padme on Naboo) and travels to Tattooine (Padme comes with him), to find Shmi.

"I'm sorry, I don't have a choice."


Anakin comes too late, loses his mother, and begins his slide to the dark side by revenge killing the Tuskens. (Failure - acted disastrously on hate and anger.)



ESB
Luke has a premonition of a future where Han and Leia are in pain on Bespin.

Vader later causes their pain to lure "past" Luke (who retroactively sensed it at a moment before this point).


Luke leaves his training prematurely to face Vader, but is defeated and fails to help his friends, who have to save him.



(Failure – left training to act on attachments and failed to stop Vader. Gets defeated and is unprepared for the revealed truth of his lineage.)


TLJ
Rey and Kylo’s minds are bridged for the duration of the film and they communicate through the force.
Rey becomes sympathetic to Kylo. I think the implication is Kylo represents Rey’s temptation to the dark side, where Rey represents Kylo’s temptation to the light.

She has a vision of him turning back when they touch hands.


Luke is refusing to properly train her, so she acts on the premonition and goes to The Supremacy to try and redeem Ben Solo.


On arriving at the throne room Snoke reveals, to their horror, that he is the one that bridged their minds. To tempt Kylo and lure Rey.

Kylo does kill Snoke rather than her...


... but after briefly fighting alongside Rey reveals he just wanted to take over the First Order himself, and rule alongside her.
(Failure – Kylo doesn’t turn back to the light and Rey’s actions help him ascend to Supreme Leader.)

ESB
Yoda: “Always in motion is the future.”
...
“If you leave now, help them you could... but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered.”

TLJ
Luke: “This is not going to go the way you think!”
...
“Rey... don’t do this!”



AOTC
Anakin: “I saw my mother. She is suffering, Padme. I saw her as clearly as I see you now.”
ESB
Luke: “I can’t get the vision out of my head... they’re my friends and I‘ve got to help them.”
TLJ
Rey: “I saw his future. As solid as I see you now.”





TLJ
Rey: “Ben, when we touched hands I saw your future. Just the shape of it, but solid and clear.”
Kylo: “I saw something too. And because of what I saw I know that when the moment comes, you will be the one to turn. Rey... I saw who your parents are.”


Rey and Kylo despite being a force-dyad demonstrate an inherent inability to understand each other.
They both think the other will turn to their side, which of course neither does.

Kylo kills Snoke like Rey predicted, but was always planning to take Snoke's place as leader.
Rey’s parents aren’t Skywalkers or heroes, but unlike in Kylo’s prediction, Rey is too strong to join him just because of this.

 

Spoiler

AOTC - Modern Jedi library.

TLJ - Original Jedi library. Showing that perhaps the Jedi should have stayed truer to their roots than the PT Jedi Order seemingly had?

Spoiler

TPM/ANH/TLJ - Blankets and forging bonds.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spoiler

AOTC - Mace: "Anakin, we will deal with Count Dooku. The most important thing for you is to stay where you are. Protect the Senator at all costs. That is your first priority."

ESB - "Yes, Lord Vader. I've reached the main power generators. The shield will be down in moments. You may start your landing. (Role reversal for Anakin/Vader)

TLJ - Hux: "Ren, the Resistance have pulled out of range. We can't cover you at this distance. Return to the fleet."

The main link noticeable here is both the AOTC and TLJ scenes come directly after Anakin's and Kylo's one scene in each movie, respectively, with their mothers.
Anakin loses Shmi and starts to turn to the dark side. First major hint at his fall.
Kylo spares Leia - a first hint at redemption. Though he thinks she has been killed when his wingman shoots the bridge.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




"Join me!"



AOTC
Obi-Wan: "The truth?"
Dooku: "The truth. What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of the Dark Lord of the Sith?"
...

Spoiler

Dooku: "Join me, Obi-Wan, and together we will destroy the Sith!"

Obi-Wan: "I will never join you, Dooku."



ESB
Luke: "I'll never join you!"

Vader: "If you only knew the power of the dark side. Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father."
Luke: "He told me enough! He told me you killed him."
Vader: "No... I am your father."
Luke: "No, that's not true. That's impossible!"
Vader: "Search your feelings, you know it to be true!"
...
Vader: "Join me, and together we will rule the galaxy as father and son."




TLJ

Kylo: "Do you wanna know the truth about your parents? Or have you always known. And you've just hidden it away."
...
Rey: "They were nobody."
...
Kylo: "Join me... Please."

Rey rejects Kylo and goes for the legacy saber.

 

Spoiler

Obi-Wan: "Next time, try not to lose it. This weapon is your life!"

Obi-Wan also states another premonition right after this -"Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?"


Anakin's saber cut in two in the droid factory.


"Not again! Obi-Wan is gonna kill me."




Obi-Wan: "Anakin!" *throws borrowed blue saber to Anakin*


Obi-Wan and Anakin are rivals in the PT (especially by the climax of the trilogy). Similarly, going further, Rey and Kylo are equal opposites.

Both Rey and Kylo fight with Anakin and Luke's old saber in the throne room.
Kylo kills Snoke with it, and at the end of the fight Rey throws it to Kylo to take out the last Praetorian guard.
Rey: "Ben!"



Anakin fought with both blue and green, after Obi-Wan threw him the second saber.


Dooku destroys the green







Revenge of the Sith.
After Obi-Wan defeats Anakin/Vader on Mustafar he takes Anakin's own ROTS saber to pass down to Luke, then to Rey.

Obi-Wan symbolically walks away with a piece of Anakin himself.


Again; in TLJ the legacy saber splits in two, perhaps when it can't decide it's polarity. It has much duality in its past.

Rey: "How do we build a Rebellion with just this?"
Leia: "We have everything we need."

 

I've really enjoyed this thread and all the great stills from every episode.

 

Thanks man.


Some random ones:

Spoiler

ESB - R2 spits out mud, Luke reacts sceptically

TLJ - Luke: "Sacred island, watch the language!"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




This one isn't a mirror but I just liked the symbolism. As Leia pulls herself back to the Resistance cruiser through the wrecked bridge she significantly moves through the holo of Snoke's ship, disintegrating the image. Pretty cool example of the Rebels knack for coming back from the brink of defeat. And breaking up the holo of Snoke's ship is like a symbol of their moral superiority over the First Order.

Spoiler

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beacons

Spoiler

AOTC -
Obi-Wan: "He's not on Naboo R4. I'm going to try and widen the range."

Obi-Wan: "That's Anakin's tracking signal alright, but it's coming from Tattooine!?!"


ESB -
"Lord Vader; Ship approaching. X-wing class."
Vader: "Good. Monitor Skywalker and allow him to land."



TLJ -
Finn: "A cloaked binary beacon." Leia: "To light her way home."

I noticed all these homing beacon references relate to a character acting on their attachments.

AOTC - Anakin has left his post on Naboo to try and save his mother.
ESB - Luke has cut his Dagobah training short to try and save Han and Leia.
TLJ - Finn attempts to desert the Resistance to find Rey.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spoiler

Geonosis - Anakin and Padme come to help Obi-Wan

Hoth - Help for Luke and Han

Crait - Rey and Chewie helping Resistance

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spoiler

TPM / TLJ - Mother and daughter

Spoiler

I hope these make sense. I was unsure about the order to put them in.

 

For the record, I think the actual parallel to Vader's revelatory twist in ESB isn't the parental "reveal" in TLJ but Kylo Ren's account of the hut incident. Both are casting doubt on the veracity of the mentor, suggesting a possible protagonist change of allegiance, and ultimately though inadvertently sowing the seeds of their own redemption.

 

Interesting.

FWIW I've seen moments that have more than one mirror, on past analysis.

I don't think I had noticed Obi-Wan's account's credibility compared to Luke's description of events in TLJ though. It is very similar.

Both apply the perspective element and "point of view" truths.

Although Vader's words in ESB are an objective truth - he is Luke's father.

Looking at Kylo's and Luke's separate accounts of events in TLJ - the first two flashback are subjective and perspective influenced. Only Luke's second account (flashback three) is the real truth. I guess like Obi-Wan's words in ROTJ.

Yours is a deeper parallel I admit.
Mine I just liked because it crossed over the three middle-of-trilogy movies at once.

 

Prophecies


ROTS -
Obi-Wan: “With all due respect, is he not the chosen one? Is he not to destroy the Sith, and bring balance to the force?”
Mace: “So the prophecy says.”
Yoda: “A prophecy that misread, could have been.”


ESB -
Emperor: “He could destroy us."
Vader: "He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him."
Emperor: "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.”

Obi-Wan: “That boy is our last hope.”
Yoda: “No... there is another.”


ROTJ -
The Jedi prophecy turns out to be true, yet in a different way than expected. Vader/Anakin is able to end the Sith because he is in the position to because he joined them.
He ends the Sith - killing Sidious and himself. Done for his son, the present Jedi prodigy Luke.



TLJ -
Yoda: “Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not.” (echoing "No there is another.")


Snoke: “I warned my apprentice that as his power grew his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker, I assumed. Wrongly.” (*Force-pulls Skywalker saber to himself*)

Another misread prophecy, this time from the bad guys.
Kylo's equal is Palpatine's granddaughter, and the other half of a force-dyad.
Not a Skywalker by blood.

And Kylo kills Snoke with Rey's help. Rey kills Palpatine with Kylo's help.


A final premonition at the end of the film:
Luke: “The sacred Jedi texts. Just like me, they’re the last of the Jedi religion.”
...
Luke: “...And I will not be the last Jedi!”