ST Rise Of Skywalker - Chosen One Prophecy

IMO -
Rey is who Anakin would have become if the Jedi Order in general and Obi Wan ion particular, had not caused him to fall into Darkness.

Anakin was a true prodigy in the Force. But instead of allowing Anakin to progress along his own path with guidance as required, Obi Wan consistently dismissed Anakins unique skills and set of circumstances in favor of the dogmatic Padawan training that was in place at the time of the PT. Ignore the fact that you know your mother will die, slow down , follow the rules or you will be expelled. sit on the High Council but not be a Master.

If he had been trained by Qui Gon , who did not allow himself to become ensnared in the ridged thinking , but simply followed the will of the Force to the best of his ability, Anakin would have been able to explore his path in a much deeper and profound way.

As for Rey, she was also a true Force prodigy. For myself, that's OK. There are prodigies in fiction and in the real world. In the ST, she progressed along a much more natural learning curve as she had to discover a great deal about herself without someone attempting to put her in a box. Leia also encouraged Rey to find her own way while helping her in building a stable basic foundation to support her.

And as Yoda said, prophecy can be misunderstood and is always viewed thru the lens of the person hearing it.

The Chosen One is not a set in stone step by step account of anyones life, It is a guide for every generation as to how to overcome adversity.

 

I think the prophecy of the force ties into different things. The mortis gods, the force priestess, the world between worlds, the unseen whills. Now with the dyad being a sith prophecy and we learn there are many prophecies.

 

But who wrote these prophecies? My guess is Alan Smithee

 

some prophet.

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Four_Sages_of_Dwartii

'Contentious'? About a prophecy maybe?Why were the sith into these guys?
Palpatine was a lawgiver too. Were those ancient laws already insidious, containing loopholes and such? Moses was a lawgiver, and in the new testament the old testament (the old law/covenant) is sometimes quoted to support the coming of Christ/Anakin. So you would only have to build this kind of retcon trap for others (the jedi) to walk into in order to cloud their judgement.

A prophecy is not a jedi thing, since always in motion is the future, and one has to be mindful of the future but not at the expense of the here and now, and so on. But somehow the PT jedi inherited the prophecy; they didn't believe in it necessarily, but somehow influenced their here and now preoccupation and made them too mindful of the future.

What's more, prophecy and choice (chosen one) are contradictory. Whenever choice is free, there's no room for prophecy; but if you believe in prophecy to begin with, your capacity for making free choices will diminish - and that will favor those who prophesized in the first place. Anakin having premonitions about Padme's death and 'killing' her himself after becoming a sith is not so different from the jedi trusting a bringer of balance who finally left the force 'in darkness'...and joined the sith.

Anakin is not called prophesized, but chosen. But the fact is, it was the jedi who chose him, and no one else. Under this perspective,

sounds like an ancient sith trap being sprung.

 

It is possible to have a contingent prophecy. There are also interpretations whereby a prophecy could come true by way of multiple different avenues. People have pondered the compatibility of free will and destiny for almost three thousand years in European literature, philosophy and theology. It is as old as epic, seemingly, since it's an issue in The Iliad. For those unaware that book is the oldest existing literary text in the European tradition.

 

http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/09/star-wars-last-jedi-rey-luke-skywalker-daisy-ridley-mark-hamill/

Apparently, Luke became familiar with the chosen one idea at some point, but maybe not before that point. When?

Was that one of the 'secrets'? Luke was in talking terms with Yoda and Anakin and Obi-Wan back then, and Anakin line in TROS is about bringing balance.
The chosen one idea does not appear in the films, but bringing balance does, and so does the idea of balance being broken. 'For many years there was balance, then I saw Ben'

Poe was born 3 years before Endor. In our world, adolescence starts at age 12 for boys, on average. So, 9 years after Endor would be the earliest date at which Luke could have 'vanished'. Were his efforts guided? Luke talked with Yoda and Anakin and Obi-Wan back then, and Anakin line in TROS is about bringing balance.

Around that time things started to move.

Two years after that -11 years after Endor- Leia sent Ben to Luke. 'Too much Vader' in Ben. Rey was born then; was she another chosen one, the jedi FG's plan B? Maybe Ben was first approached by Palpatine/Snoke when he was 9, the age Anakin had when first met Palpatine in TPM, and those ghostly guys started to plan in advance. 'Lost Ben Solo you did, lose Rey we must not'

(Pablo Hidalgo said in a tweet that the jedi temple was 'someone else's idea for him[Luke]' - but in this case, that someone else looks evil. Maybe the KOR and those jedi hunters were there in order to create a reaction, the temple, that would be attacked and destroyed when the time was right. That destruction, as the Kylo Ren comic shows, was not Ben Solo's fault)

 

Just after The Force Awakens apparently many fans thought the Knights of Ren had a hand in the Temple being destroyed. I found this out by going through all the old sequel forum threads. Man, this quarantine has opened up a lot of time.

 

I see some people keep trying, very hard, to see the entire I-IX saga through the lens of the Chosen One prophecy, basically PT lore.

That prophecy only works for Episodes I and II. Yoda and Windu already (kind of) dismissed it in III. Not only a misread prophecy, but basically a Qui-Gon mistake that ultimately placed a potential traitor and very flawed individual inside the very core of the Order (Anakin Skywalker).

The prophecy was indeed misread and only meant that Anakin was destined to kill Palpatine, the Dark Lord of the Sith. How and when was irrelevant. (Ep VI). It only mattered because when it happened, actual balance was achieved (the 2 sith gone, only 1 Jedi remaining).

Also, prophecies and sorcerer tales are nothing compared to the cloning technology and the mastery of the unnatural DS techniques to become immortal (IX). You can achieve balance, but you can't kill the DS, or prevent it from ever returning.

 

The prophecy worked fine for episodes I-VI as a self-contained saga. The question is whether it still works in light of the ST.

According to Lucas ( when the saga was I-VI ), Anakin was the Chosen One, which would mean that the prophecy was not in fact misread. The sequel trilogy supports the idea that Anakin brought balance, at least temporarily: both Luke and Anakin's ghost say so.

The prophecy speaks of the restoration of balance. It never says anything about killing the dark side or preventing it from ever returning.

The balance of the Force is not a question of relative numbers of Jedi and Sith. Jedi do not canonically unbalance the Force; in fact, the existence of the order promotes balance, as Lor San Tekka claimed.

 

I like this post @Arawn_Fenn !

I also like Yoda's conversation in Ep3 also means the prophecy could be wrong all along. There is a quite a bit of wiggle room for interpretation.

There are two parts to the Chosen One Prophecy. They will bring Balance in the Force by destroying the Sith.

I think the way the Sequel Trilogy ends, we see that without Anakin the Sith could not later be defeated for good on Exegol. Palpatine's ability to cheat death personally, and the Sith as collective being able to cheat death by transferring from Master to Apprentice took special steps to undo. Anakin is key to all of this.

Even at the end of The Rise of Skywalker balance will not last forever, but perhaps the Sith really are done forever.

Yeah - the prophecy speaks about the Sith never returning. Balance is always going to be in flux.

1 Jedi + 1 Sith does not equal balance. This is the biggest misconception Star Wars fans have about the Force.

The Sith are actively manipulating the Force out of balance for their own gain. 1 Sith equals imbalance in the Force. Any Sith at all means imbalance in the Force. That's because of the way they use the Force adds more darkness.

The Jedi as an order actively work towards balance. The Jedi listen to the will of the Force and follow what it tells them. The Sith bend the Force to their own will.

 

Looking back at how the ST butchered the entire Chosen One prophecy, I've found it notable that Filoni (as over story) has driven it back to the forefront for Star Wars.

Obi-Wan first highlighted it in the opening scene - with constant reinforcements throughout the series. The BTS had Deborah Chow and Hayden Christiansen talking about the importance of the character (with Hayden telling stories of GL coaching him on the character and to remember he's always the Chosen One).

With the reports that The Acolyte will be focused on a PT setup (with likely Chosen One prophecy implications) as well as Hayden reported to be in Ahsoka, returning Anakin Skywalker as the Chosen One and central to the overarching Force story effectively removing Rey's importance to the overarching Saga.

A shame how DLFL wasted the character.

 

Who says that had anything to do with Filoni? He isn't an exec-producer or any kind of producer on the show.

But then Hayden voicing his view on it doesn't mean this was the steps they went through for bringing his character back.

 

Filoni is the Creative Director over all Star Wars stories. There's a reason each main part of ending credits starts with GL and ends with Filoni. All the directors have been clear that his influence has driven the story.

What Chow/Hayden said was a clear message.

 

But your view point is that Filoni is guiding all these stories, when sure he certainly has a thanks credit for Obi Wan, but thats probably for the use of the rebels characters. But he doesn't have a producer credit for Obi Wan. A producer would mean he had some say on the production. But he isn't the Kevin Feige of Star Wars.

Folini was busy working on Mando, Ahsoka and probably boba fett around that time.

Now that's not say certain things were not discussed with Filoni. But in terms of what actually went to screen... that probably had nothing to do with him.

 

Filoni has the keys over all of Star Wars main story for some time now - far more than just some characters used. He's making sure everything fits and modifying what doesn't.

 

Lucas has been quite clear on this, Anakin was the Chosen One. It's why he has Obi-Wan say, "You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness." Lucas isn't exactly subtle with his symbolism.

The number of Jedi and Sith aren't what balance is about. Luke was supposed to make a New Jedi Order, starting with his sister, so there would have/should have been more Jedi, and the Force would still have been balanced because it's not some numbers game of individuals.

But because the ST has zero idea or care about anything from SW except the OT, and then only the surface aesthetics of it and/or to undo it, we get zombie Palpatine undoing Anakin's finally doing the right thing, and fulfilling the prophesy.

Exactly. Sith are inherently imbalanced. Therefore if they exist, the galaxy is imbalanced, and in very bad way because Sith are greedy, angry, hateful, and unfortunately powerful enough to cause huge swathes of the galaxy to suffer.

 

Balance was not ever about numbers.

"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is gray. In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the "Star Wars" saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this. In "The Phantom Menace" one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of the Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that the Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces."

--George Lucas, Cut Magazine Interview, 1999.

 

Kinda have to wonder....Mace refers to the prophecy that will bring balance to the force in TFA, and questions QGJ believing it's Anakin. Yet, he's also assured that the Sith could not have survived for the last 10000 years unnoticed by them.

So .... what does he suspect is unbalancing the force? Who else is out there that Mace thinks is causing it?

 

There are more force users than Jedi and Sith.

 

Did Mace really ever believe in the prophecy, or was he just skeptical about whether Anakin was the Chosen One? He gives a pretty caustic response to Obi-Wan in ROTS when the latter asks if Anakin is the Chosen One, and he nods along when Yoda suggests that the prophecy could have been misread, making it seem like he's not totally bought on the whole prophecy thing.

 

I don’t think Obi-Wan believes the prophesy in TPM.

We learn in the Clone Wars just how much Qui-Gon has learned about the Force. He’s seen some stuff. So Qui-Gon is much more conducive to believing that old myths and seeing connections between events.

 

The Jedi Master who suspects the Force is becoming unbalanced is Yoda. That's why he says that the dark side is hard to see. He doesn't dismiss Qui-Gon's claims that it was a Sith on Tattooine. Mace and Ki-Adi-Mundi do.

The Dagoyan Masters and the Witches of Dathmoir are eliminated as well. Yoda, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka and Ezra are the only Jedi alive by the time of RO and ANH.* One Nightsister named Shelish. Two Sith Lords. And then the Ren, who were barely a threat.

*The fates of Cal and Jundra are TBD.

 

The original post I was replying to was talking about TPM era, right? So not eliminated yet.

Id be really surprised if those are the the only Force sensitive groups in the galaxy.