Full Series The Clone Wars 7.12 - Victory and Death (SERIES FINALE!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I just want to know when the movie version will come out. I think it wouldn't be too much of an issue to put all four parts together as a nice bookend movie the way the original The Clone Wars movie opened up the series.

 

I sure by the summer something might be announced, hopefully by fall maybe releasing it at the same time Mandalorian Season 2 begins? A little crossover hype/promotion seeing how a few of our favorite characters are rumored to appear.

 

As great as SoM already is, if they do a movie version I hope there is an extended version. That would slap.

 

A movie version could be an extended version. Give time to add in the scenes since it'll be longer as one whole film though if there was a scene that was necessary they would have kept it in. I don't remember much about the deleted Clone Wars scenes but they didn't add much I don't think and I also don't know if there were any moments that felt like they were missing?

 

I don't think an extended version would really make SoM better or that it's missing anything. It's already about perfect. I just think it would be cool. There has never been need for alternate or extended versions with episodes. They used to put alt scenes on the Blu-rays though. My fav being in the Citadel arc, the version of Sobeck's death where he is killed by Tarkin is better than the episode's of his death. Plus that would have given Ahsoka and Fives an actual interaction on screen.

 

Oh I can definitely blame Ahsoka. She could have swallowed her pride and done what was best for Anakin. Mace Windu is not a bad person. He's in charge of the Jedi Council and he definitely cares about doing the right thing in terms of the Republic, and she should have recognized that no matter what their personal relationship is like.

 

Probably 18 months at least. Unless they release it like that on D+

 

I see a few people have mentioned Ahsoka's (and Maul's) force usage seeming overpowered in this episode, but I would instead question whether how Ahsoka uses the force is consistent in the episode and makes sense. For me the shuttle being held back by Ahsoka is not the issue, it's how it is shown physically pulling her forwards. The force is not an invisible physical link, the force user doesn't physically lift the weight of an object they are raising up with the force. Using the force to move things isn't about physical strength Yoda tells Luke. So why is the forward pull of the ship (an identical force to that of a rock pulling down in gravity) effecting Ahsoka? Even more ridiculous, why is this foward pull not just lifting Ahsoka up into the air and flying her up to the ship as it effortlessly flies away? Does she have some kind of counter pull to on the floor to keep her feet planted? Does she have some force ability going to stop her arms and legs pulling off then?
Really what we should have seen was the jet wash from the Shuttle blasting Ahsoka backwards, a real force that needs to be physically pushed back against, Rex physically helping to hold Ahsoka steady would make sense in this situation.

The other thing I noticed was why could Ahsoka not just force pull herself into the Y-Wing? That frustrated me.

 

Y-wing is just to build tension. Even though we already knew what would happen to Rex and Ahsoka

 

Is that before or after she's referred to as nothing more than a Citizen by Windu?

Even if she told Yoda alone, chances are the Council still wouldn't have recognized Ahsoka's good intentions. Windu didn't want to elaborate on what's on their mind, and she decided to keep things to herself in the end.

 

To be honest, that was established long before this episode.

 

I think we need to look at this situation from Ahsoka perspective.
- she had lost faith in the Jedi Order and believed the purpose of the Council was not the original purpose of what the Jedi swore to be/do
- at the point she meets via hologram the she’s aware of the plot but unaware of the Council intentions. She probably also wanted to know what the Council next move was but then Mace interjected “Jedi Business citizen” at this point I’d be resentful especially coming from Mace Windu who used her trial as “your great trial and because of that ... Jedi Knight “ Windu again showed contempt towards Tano.

I think she didn’t tell them because she didn’t trust them to do the right thing, I think if it was Yoda only Ahsoka would’ve told him. In fact Yoda says “more to say you have...?” And she doesn’t reply.

That’s typical Mace and for the defacto #2 in the order (as the Master of the Order) you’d think he’d be more civilized and formal but he wasn’t

 

Ahsoka is aware of which plot? She's aware of what Maul has told her, but she walks into that hologram meeting well after Mace has said "I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi." What she hears is "it depends on the Chancellor" but Mace does not elaborate because she's a "citizen". I don't think she places any validity on what Maul told her once he made his accusations against Anakin.

 

Well, supposedly Siege of Mandalore and Order 66 were gonna be separate arcs originally (source is around 3:40 into that video). I imagine if they went through with the Ahsoka-Vader confrontation, it would have been in the Order 66 arc.

 

This exactly; and she doesn’t know who to trust. I wish when Yoda said “more to say...” she would’ve asked to talk to him alone.

 

Mace was just being Mace, he wasn't wrong since it is the Chancellor and whats going on with him should be confidential. Mace just said it way to bluntly that it was Jedi Council business. However, this is Ahsoka who they were talking to and at such a vital moment it would make sense to extend a hand and try to work with her. Yoda really did try but Ahsoka just doesn't trust them. She knows from what Obi-wan said the council was using Anakin, making him spy on his friend and mentor, the Chancellor. Mace opened that can of worms by even name dropping the Chancellor.

Ahsoka was unwilling to believe what Maul said about Anakin. He almost had her until he said that stuff about him being groomed to be Sidious' next apprentice. She doesn't want to tell the council something she believed is false yet may lead to serious trouble for Anakin. She wants to tell Anakin himself. Ahsoka must have considered at some point telling the council though. She decided to tell Rex what Maul said. Rex doesn't just call her out to remind her she didn't tell them. He called her out because he'd wanted her to tell them. Why? Because Rex seems bothered by it. He is stewing over the conspiracy. Imagine if he had told Ahsoka earlier about Fives' conspiracy and the inhibitor chip.

 

He said that early versions of the Siege of Mandalore didn't always coincide with RotS, not that there was an Order 66 arc.

And of course, people are mad at Windu because he dared to call her a citizen when she just called herself like that. Same thing happened with her argument with Obi-Wan in the first episode. Apparently, no character is allowed to call her out.

 

I think it was Mace’s contemptuous tone that got to people. Had he said “I’m sorry Ashoka, but unfortunately your decision to remain outside the Jedi Order means I can’t risk sharing the information with you - it’s a risk we can’t take, with any citizens” I imagine the reaction would’ve been a little different.

 

Goes beyond that. Don't forget he's the one at the end of The Wrong Jedi who says to Ahsoka, "This was actually your great trial..." to which Ahsoka justifiably folds her arms and twitches her eyebrows.

 

Yeah that is exactly the same issue. It makes no sense. Somebody needs to tell Filoni "That's not how the force (or physics) works!"

 

Well, it was her great trial. From what we've seen in the new canon, it seems that the Jedi trial is when Padawan encounters some unexpected difficult obstacle or challenge and manages to pass.

Obi-Wan had to fight Maul, for Anakin it seems his trial was the Battle of Geonosis and his fight with Dooku. Neither of those were planned by the Council.

Ahsoka's trial was to be falsely accused and needing to clear her name. And she did succeed. But then she got emotional and couldn't forgive the Council for not backing her up. A proper Jedi should let those feelings go. There is no emotion, there is peace. Something Mace lives by.

 

But the point is that it was the Council's decision itself not to back her up; which is different from those other outside forces giving Anakin and Obi-Wan their own trials. From a certain point of view, it's easy to assume that Mace and at least some of the Council members had intended this all along. You can't blame Ahsoka for getting upset about it. The hypocrites in the Council went along with the Tarkin's (and obviously the Chancellor's) decision to remove her status as a Jedi; then of course a short time later they're hunting down the Chancellor on the premonition he's got something up his sleeve.

 

Talk about a complete letdown, and moment which affected her more than others before than; to not even then get support and assurance from a Council leader but for him to with snark say it was a trial, the absolute disrespect and contempt by Master Windu is disheartening.

Bingo! The Jedi over time lost focus and their true purpose during the Clone Wars; and Ahsoka trial further created a divide in the Jedi hierarchy which was orchestrated by the puppet master himself (Palpatine)

 

I think when it comes to the question of who is to blame for the fall of the Republic - well there is a lot of blame to go around.
The main responsible people however are Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker I'd say.
Ahsoka's contribution is comparably small.

 

You're projecting things that aren't there. He's not giving her snark, and certainly not disrespect of contempt! They all apologize to her, even Mace, but if he hadn't, the others still did. Mace is not the whole Jedi council. They're all being sincere. Even Mace says "we see that now." Every Padawan goes through a great trial. Obi Wan's great trial was losing his master and having to face Darth Maul, and winning. The Jedi didn't set that up for him.

Mace is telling her she's no longer a Padawan. She has persevered and proven herself a Jedi, despite himself.