ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

You could make that argument for all the characters. Rey was clearly a retread of Luke (desert planet). Kylo was clearly a retread of Anakin. At least with Finn it could have been something new and fresh for the general audience who have no clue who Kyle katarn is.

 

Rey was Luke, Kylo was Anakin, Finn was 3PO and Poe was late in the game attempt at Han Solo. Once again, just giving someone a storm trooper background doesn't mean they ever wanted to make use of it. TFA removed him from that environment quickly and there was no love lost between him and other troopers because the movie was never interested to humanize them anyway. Kasdan thought it would be cool if smuggler Sam was Storm trooper Finn without changing anything about his character to match his background or developing the idea further.

 

I think I can see pointing to a problem as a fair reaction to something.

 

No way! OMG, just googled Kyle Katarn and he looks like Cap with beard! Wow




That's so hot. Imagine if Chris played Kyle. Now that's a missed opportunity.

 

In my opinion that story would have been more cohesive as far as bringing audiences together to root for the protagonist. Pairing the underdog and redemption elements are easy money in that vein. Instead they tried to have their cake and eat it too by splitting those elements between Rey and Kylo. But the problem was it didn't work because Kylo was never shown as deserving or even wanting redemption until the last third of the last movie (even that's debateable because he doesn't say a single word about it) and Rey was never really portrayed as a true underdog.

 

Wow - you're right!

 

Um, no.

Rey ended up with her friends and the Resistance.

The last scene is just an epilogue like broom boy in TLJ.

Rey is doing a pilgrimage to Tatooine, in honor of Luke and Leia.

In the meta sense, it’s to close out the nine films where it began.

Then she’ll return to the others in the Resistance.

 

Which is why the accent is on Rey with Luke and Leia not Rey and friends (afterthought). They were closing all 9 movies and Rey and friends wouldn't drive the point/have meaning. They are just ST contained (heck, TROS contained but enough with nitpicking) without any bearing to other 2 trilogies. So they opted for the twins tribute. Clumsy af but I get what they were trying to do. Also can't lie, glad that twins hijacked the ending from friends. Anthony was so disappointed. "after 40 years, that's it?"

 

I don't think he would have been a watered-down Kyle at all. He probably would have been a different take on Kyle's premise but with more trauma to start with and in the midst of a more radicalized faction. Which is just perfect material for a central protagonist. Has a lot more potential than Rey's character ever had. John probably would have preferred being given material like that too.

 

But that was never on the studio and film-makers mind. They didn't want a dark and gritty political movie/trilogy. They wanted fluffy escapism. That's why Finn was a fluff Storm Trooper In Name Only. A classic comic relief sidekick only dressed up as a figure that instills fear who is really a sanitation worker with zero combat experience. I'm just pointing out what was realistic to expect and those expectations were not realistic. Not to mention that Finn wasn't envisioned as a Storm Trooper. That was just a last minute change to his background but not something they had grand plans with. They needed a companion for Rey who wouldn't upstaged her (cause her original companion, Luke, did) and they invented smuggler Sam who then evolved into Storm Trooper Finn with only change being his background and shortly his costume (trooper armor instead of Han cosplay vest/jacket that he ended up with anyway).

 

The filmakers had nothing in mind since we know the ST was a circle story infiltrated by a troll. Hopefully Disney/LFL had honest after action reviews that have identified the glaring problems allowing them to go forward better prepared with the new material.

 

Huh?

Come again?

 

LOL, just a reminder to all. At one point, we were told (ad nauseum) that they would NEVER make Finn Force Sensitive, how it wouldn't make sense, how it wasn't necessary, and how only a handful of disgruntled fans were asking for it, not a larger market... and then we got Force Sensitive Finn anyway. Now the argument is, they'll never make any more movies with ST characters. I have a certain admiration for these people, they seem to have a talent for finding different ways to be just as wrong as they were before.

 

I don't think it's a far stretch to say we may never see the ST trilogy character on film again right now. With John public feuding with Reylo's to Oscar Issac saying he doesn't want to come back people aren't just making this stuff up. Now it's entirely possible but it seems like Disney is looking for what will make Star Wars popular again. The series was at an all time high after TFA and now it's at an all time low at least in terms of merchandise sales etc. That's pretty crazy when we have stuff in active development compared to when we only had the EU..... Disney needs an entirely new Star Wars story that sell if they want to keep the franchise going and that means moving away from the ST and it's characters no matter if you like them or not it's what they have to do. If we get a new trilogy that people like more than the ST why would they go back to the story especially of the actors themselve don't want to do it! John said he would come back if Oscar and Daisy did and the other two really don't seem to want to

 

The problem is it seems like they threw it in with the kitchen sink in TROS to please those disgruntled fans, just like they were trying to please everybody else.

Finn having the force never affects his arc in TROS or any of the films beyond surface level.

Not even in the EU material on Finn released so far.


So it looks like they put it in to throw Finn a bone. You take it out, it doesn’t affect Finn or the plot in anyway.

Heck. The last second thrown in detail on Poe being a spice runner has more affect on the plot.

 

Finn as 3PO? How did you come to that conclusion?

 

Hopefully they take a long look at what people enjoyed from TFA and see where the problems came from afterwards. Not everyone enjoyed TFA, but it was fairly well liked among critics and audiences. Lots of people were excited for what came next. TLJ then came around and lost half the audience and TROS lost the critics.

 

Uh, Finn not force sensitive would mean the Resistance were screwed at Exegol. No way to know what to target.

And Imo the implication was Finn was strong-minded enough to break from FO conditioning because of the force.

 

What about Jannah and everyone else in her division?




I’d rather the force didn’t tell Finn how to behave.

 

I honestly have no idea where Disney can go with the ST characters. There is a lot of covert racism within the fandom that has really created a lot of tension that is incredibly deep rooted and difficult to address. From the way that KMT has been forced offline to the racist backlash against John Boyega, the ST seems like absolute poison for Disney at this point. I can't imagine Disney returning to the ST universe for a long time.

 

It's really sad that the way people feel about the characters how racist people can be is going to be most likely a part of why it will take a long time for them to bring the ST characters back to the screen. They have a narrative mess and a real world mess as well. I think they are just going to want to move way from Finn and everyone and do something completely fresh.

 

For me, TFA was a rehash of ANH, but with some new characters. That's the main reason why I have such a low opinion of it. I mean, I had low opinions of both TLJ and TROS as well . . . but for different reasons. Is that how Disney's Star Wars is supposed to survive in the future? Produce different variations on the Original Trilogy movies?

 

I think the problem with TROS is instead of producing a strong storyline and bringing the sequel to a satisfying conclusion, Abrams and DLF wanted to please everyone.
In TFA Poe was supposedly meant to die. But Oscar wanted him to live. So, JJ not only spared the character but gave him a major role.
Daisy said that Rey 'didn't need a boyfriend' , John wanted FS Finn. They got their wish, also they were disappointed that they didn't get to work together in TLJ. So, they spend most of their screen time together in TROS.
Terrio is a huge Luke and Leia fan. He wanted it to be all about the Twins. So it was.
Haters moaned that Snoke was a lousy villain. So they bring back Palpatine. Racists hated Kelly. Out goes Rose. Kylo haters wanted him to pay for killing Han. He gets killed off. Reylos are given a kiss scene as a consolation prize. The want Skywalker Rey. Wish granted.
The result was a complete mess. And most people hated it.

 

I’m not sure about your argument with the Twins. They were barely in the film.

As for everything else. That’s just how JJ’s always made films. He decides on what looks cool and throws it in. Ask any of the new Star Trek movie cast. They say the same thing.

He doesn’t sit down and say this is where the character is starting and this is where the character ends, like normal writers.

TFA was the same way. But it’s balanced by Kasdan inout put and by the fact it was the first movie, so any of his open ended plot point mystery boxes didn’t need answers yet. People forget TFA is just as fast paced as TROS. With too much running and screaming and not enough character development where it needs to be.

 

Sadly when RJ tried to do something different he was vilified for it.