Discussion The Scribble Pad (Fanfic Writing Discussions)

At the same time this can be a really lacy way of making somebody alien if they are to human in other ways - like a species that don't understand monogamy but are in all other ways like humans feels like something from a bad attempt to through a story show why marriage is a stupid institution. Or that a species of badguys are described as having no problem with killing each other if given the simplest of reason but seems to have no problem cooperating or organising like humans or in other ways think exactly like humans just feel like a cheep way to say that "those guys are bad, you see".

On the other hand don't we want something that's so alien that your main characters can't interact with it in some way (beside fighting) - so it's a bit of a tightrope walk.


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Or the other way around for all we know. Since so many non-human species seems to have a way of thinking that's similar/the same as humans can't we take for granted that humanity have not been influenced by other species - maybe the whole pioneering thing is something humanity got from the duros for al we know?

But we also know of many republic species with strange class/governing system that's been part of the Republic

Based on the warrior cultures that are part of the Republic so would the Republic not have any problem with the mandos, if they just kept their fighting within themselves or using it for defence.

It feels a bit strange to ask the Republic to not strike back if the Mandalorains repeatingly attacked them just because it's the mandos' culture to unprovoked attack others - it's a bit like saying that a buffalo should not defend itself against a wolf because it's the wolf's nature to attack it.

Yea, I did not really like that storyline in TOR.

But did not the Alderaanians (mostly) think that the killiks was mindless creatures out to consume?

If I remember right so was it because they continued attacking Republic (and their allies) space/ships to gather slaves. That the Republic put an end to it was after the Zygerrians did not stop with their aggression.

 

What do you do when you pick up a prompt and the Muse instantly goes, "Yes! This sounds exactly like something [Character] would say/do!" But then you have no idea how to make it into a story.

 

I would write down some ideas/thoughts in point format, maybe try to write something without really anchoring it to a beginning or a continuation to see if it worked - later I would maybe use it or just kill it and use for spare parts.

I have lots of ideas and characters that never went anywhere more than a light write up but I have found myself reusing some of the writing for stuff I do now a-days.

Maybe try not to write a full story but just some scenes? Many A:tLA fanfictinoers I followed on livejornal and similar back in time often just wrote short snippets instead of a "longer" (relatively speaking) short-story when given a prompt, or had the prompt as the main title and then had lost of smaller sub-titles (f.ex. episode titles and the sniped showed how the changes created by the prompt changed that named episodes).

 

gg

 

Thanks guys, your suggestions have been helpful. I'm getting some ideas now.

 

To continue with this:
Have people any examples of beings (from SW or other places) that are alien in their mind-set but humans/human-likes can still interact with, at least some what?

I will give my own examples later but right now I don't have the time.

 

Argh, I am thinking all around a science fiction short story [non-SW] with various plot points about one crew member from a reptilian species who interacted with and lived with humans to the point of a human woman falling in love with him; he eventually became her Significant Other and really wasn't all that taken with her, but she was with him to the point of bragging about her relationship. He thought he was sort of alone [I think it was a Gilligan's Island sitch?] and cut off from his own species, but when a female of his kind turned up, he ditched the human quick and hard. The whole effect was pitiful ... and comedic. Now I'll try to think of the author ... it was in an anthology ...

 

A lot of Timothy Zahn's non-SW books have some interesting and and very alien aliens. The first book that came to mind was Manta's Gift, with manta ray-like aliens that live on a gas giant, although their ability to interact with humans is very limited. The Dragonback series has pretty interesting dragon-like beings that require a human host. The Quadrail series has lots of weird aliens, including "Spiders," where it's not clear whether they are animal or machine.

Bloodchild by Octavia E. Butler has some pretty crazy parasitic insect aliens that use humans to carry their eggs to term. (Warning that the story is pretty intense and disturbing.)

 

One of the lighter alien mind-sets I can think of are the dogs from Up, they are very humanlike but then they have their sudden "squirrel!" or "ball!" moment and show that are not fully following human logic. The uplifted wolf Florence Ambrose from the webcomic Freefall is a bit similar that she mostly act human but then do non human stuff like having a notable hunting instinct, "burring" food in towels before putting it the refrigerator, having some strange ides about what's the proper way to act in some situations, etcetera.

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The stryxis from Rogue Trader RPG are a mysterius race that humanity have only have sporadic contacts with but that contact show them being highly interested in trading and haggling, in such ways that seems obsessive and strange for humans, one of their quotes are: "Depart in 60 seconds or you fire upon us, honoured biped? Hmmm...what if we leave in 180 seconds and we exchange five of our crew for one of your fine, proud, biped ships? No? Ten of our crew?"

They also are presented as having alien ideas of worth, selling priceless artefacts for trinkets or junk, or asking high prices for common stuff. The Lexicanum describe them as "able to communicate easily with those humans who share the common attributes of curiosity, greed and self-interest. They delight in trade and attach great worth to valuable or rare items. For this reason, they have no interest in conquest or territory and are largely indifferent to the welfare of their own species. Ultimately, the Stryxis are driven by avarice and the need to sate their petty, duplicitous intrigues. Despite this, the Stryxis are extremely dangerous and must not be underestimated. They are skilled dissemblers, and often use their eccentric behaviour and obsession with trinkets to conceal their intellect. The Stryxis will not hesitate to betray those they deal with, should they perceive profit in the act."

There is also that they are presented as lacking in much technology of own making, all their spaceships for example are created by others, refitted for the stryxis needs. Areas where they are known to manufacture their own items are when it comes to weapon technology and some of the specialised inner parts of their spaceships.

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The nezumi (rat-men) from Legends of the Five Rings gameworld are humanlike enough in mentality for interaction to be rather easy (even if they all have ADHD from a human perspective) but they have a much larger flight instinct, only fighting if cornered (with some exceptions that are considered mad by their kin) or to save the tribe (they don't have any problem harrying threats from a distance); seems to overall lack a concept of personal property, but have a concept of communal property (meaning their group or tribe, not their whole society or species); and have a, by human standard, bad memory but extraordinary learning ability; their eyes are naturally drawn toward shiny objects and the glitter have a calming effect on their mind , similar to soothing music for humans. There are other differences but I don't know how many of them are cultural and how many are actually biological.

 

The best portrayal of aliens I've encountered in science fiction would be the Faded Sun Trilogy, by CJ Cherryh, a series that holds up incredibly well despite being written in the late 1970s. The trilogy introduces two major alien species, the physically human-like Mri and the decidedly not-so Regul, both of which are very well realized. The Mri demonstrate how a species very close to the human norm physically - close enough that humans can successfully live within Mri society and not face any major survival impediments - can still be massively different in mind set and consequently in cultural mores. For instance, the Mri divide their society into three separate, inviolate spheres with no cross-over between the members in a way humans could never accept. The Regul are far more variant, having an amphibian-style metamorphosis from fully sapient, but neuter, juveniles, to sexually mature adults, and consequently their society considers youths to be almost wholly disposable, something that colors their relations with other species.

In terms of space opera, I find much to recommend in the multi-species society of the Dread Empire's Fall series by Walter John Williams (best known to Star Wars fans as the author of Destiny's Way), which is powerfully demonstrative of the capability of a dominant culture to sand down differences between species over time and enforce conformity despite biological differences. Since everyone in the universe lives under the constraints of The Praxis, an ironclad doctrine imposed by alien conquerors, they all share a similar background despite their biological differences. The series is also an extremely solid military sci-fi epic, and well worth reading for anyone interested in describing fleet combat.

 

Example of an alien mind-set from the webcomic Freefall:


http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff3500/fc03430.htm

 

Now imagine if a species where the female sometimes can eat the male watches a romantic comedy---it would probably be equivalent to a horror movie

 

Some more thoughts regarding the whole alien mind-set discussion: completely alien beings are in practise boring when it comes to interaction, either they are violent against us for unknowable reasons and we can’t communicate, making them nothing more than monsters or they are alien and seems to ignore us making them no more than background scenery.
What you want is something that’s human-like enough that communication (of a kind) is possible but that still has something that shows that it has a different way of thinking/seeing the world.

One easy way is to not show too much of their society: have the characters that are human/have a human mind-set not getting anything but glimpses of their overall society. As long as their overall organisation/society/culture is not show do you (the author) not need to explain why they do stuff like:
* Them not accept any standard currencies or precious metals, and instead must be offered a variety of apparently worthless items such as fossilised bones, fragmented rocks, space debris, dead plants, and the like – and only accept the work/trade if they find one of the “baubles” acceptable. And there is no know logic to what they find acceptable.
* Why they suddenly are highly insulted by something the character/s just did.
* Why they suddenly are finding something the character/s just did/said really funny.
* Why they attack an area, killing anybody in their way, only to take some seemingly worthless stuff.
* How it can be that they are highly advanced in some areas, while in others are bafflingly primitive.
* How the society of species that always travel in group and whose first reaction to something that might be dangerous is to flee the other way actually could function.
* etcetera.

One problem with creating an alien mind-set I find is to establish what is cultural and what is something based on their biological psychology – as in: what “quirks” do the xeno*-species keep no matter their cultural upbringing.
* (I'm using xeno here for non-human sentient species since alien could also be used to just humans or culture that you don't know and I want to make clear that's not what I mean, and I find "non-human sentient species" a bit to long to use every time I want to indicate that's what I mean)

As a kind of reference thing, and to help with inspiration, have I been working on a list of alien mind-set "quirks" for an xeno-species for a xeno-generator - I'm using the Xenos Empire Generator from the Rogue Trader House Rules part of FFG's forum as a base and adding on from there - there is for now 10 quirks, and they are behind the spoiler tag if anybody is interested for their own stuff. If anybody have any thoughts regarding the quirks or what could be added to the list, I'm all ears (or eyes since this is a written medium).

Spoiler

Alien quirk:

1 Reclaimators
2 Flight before fight
3 Biological castes
4 Collectors
5 Terrorists
6 Irrational hatred
7 Fickle fanaticism
8 Community minded
9 Creatures of pattern and structure
10 Hungry sentientivore

Reclaimators:
The xenos seem to lack an ability or willingness to manufacture their own technology. Maybe beside some items or special machinery so are all their technology repurposed technology created by other species, more or less modified and/or used for its original purpose.

Flight before fight:
By human standards so are the members of this xeno species cowards all. They flee anytime attacked, never standing their ground and seldom themselves attack, and when they do it’s in ways where they quickly can flee from their target if it’s still standing after the first attack. Any warfare will be in the form of harrying, hit and runs and surprise attacks, likely using traps and poisons – and it’s possible they only do it to make it easier for a larger group of them to run away, likely followed by the harriers fleeing once the larger group has cleared out.

Biological castes
The species is divided into “biological castes” with each caste having a specific function that they excel in, and are possibly unable to move outside of. The different castes may all look similar with most of the difference being psychological and lifestyle, or they may look so different that they could be mistaken for different species. There may be a single breeder (that also may be the ruler), or maybe all/most of the species can produce youngs.

Classic “biological castes” line ups are workers, crafters, fighters, leaders/coordinators, and ambassadors/merchants; and builders/craftsmen, fighters, brutes/heavies, leaders/coordinators – but there is need that the species follow those lines. There may also be that there are different castes for different specialisations within an area, like: range-fighters, and close-combat-fighters.

Collectors
Members of this species are collectors all, maybe they collect anything that comes along their way or may have specific focuses when it comes to their collection. They are most likely proud and very protective regarding collections, but can likely be tempted to part with a part of it, be it an object or lore, in return for the promise of a greater prize. Most likely they only agree to those transactions which end with their hoard growing.

Terrorists
This species seems to thrive on making others uncomfortable, even when doing trade or friendly diplomatic dealings. In war they most likely relay on terror-tactics, theatrical shows of violence, and leaving statements of cruelty for others to find.

Irrational hatred
The species have an, from outsiders perspective, irrational hatred against some thing or things. May be something that’s a bit understandable (genocidal hatred against predators larger than a cat), or it may be that anything with a certain shape or smell, or it don’t seem to follow any kind of human logic. If they see somebody having or dealing with what they hate is it possible they just ignore anything else to just attack and destroy the target, maybe being surprised afterward that people are offended by hen’s actions; or maybe they will draw back, declare the offender persona non grata and fire upon hen if hen don’t leave immediately.

Fickle fanaticism
Members of this species are all fanatic followers of an idea, an ideal, a person or something else, willing to go into death for what they believe in, until they no longer are. Something in their alien mind-set makes them suddenly stop believing in what they have been following, to abound the cause they have been hard working for years. It could be something that’s a bit understandable that what they have been following has shown something that the xeno perceive as weakness, or that the leader has died; or maybe something much less understandable, more alien is guiding them and making them just decide to go away from their former cause. Most likely those xenos will fight without care for themselves as long as what they believe in is still there but will suddenly just split if it’s killed/destroyed, maybe they will suddenly change their uncontrolled loyalty toward whoever it was that took down their former “master” - at least as long as their alien mind don’t make them decide to abound their new “master”.

Community minded
This species are highly community minded and would not do anything that they believe would be bad for the group, even if it would mean ignoring personal gain or having to endorse pain, or even give up their own life. It’s not to say that they are not individual with their own goals and dreams, just that they would never put them before the community’s good. The community’s size can be as large as the whole species or as small as around fifty individuals, or maybe even ten – figuring out the size of the community members of this species are loyal to can be very important in negotiations or war.

Creatures of pattern and structure
Slow changing when not pushed to it this xeno-species cultural changes and technological progression happens slowly. Whatever culture and technology they have when first meet is probably more or less the same as the culture and technology they had for over hundreds, if not thousands of years ago. New stuff is more likely to be imported or copied from outsiders. May or may not react volatile to anything that pushes them to quick changes.

Hungry sentientivore
The species are hungry and have no taboo against eating other culture-creatures, probably making an important part of negating with them a question about not appearing to good tasting and having something to offer the xenos to constantly snack on.

That made me think of the mantis parts of the deleted scenes from Kung Fu Panda 2

 

for your generator. I've nothing to add; that story I mentioned rings a bell about Larry Niven being its author, possibly in the Ringworld 'verse, but boy, he's so prolific that I can't figure out if any of the summaries of his stories contain what I mentioned. Loved the clip!

EAD: Thanks to genesistrine who discovered the story: "Thesme and the Ghayrog," by Robert Silverberg, not Niven or King. It's the first story from "Majipoor Chronicles."

 

For an ongoing ficlet series of mine I wanted to feature the nuances of confiding between either siblings (Luke and Leia) or a couple (Han and Leia). How would they subtly signal a readiness to listen versus openly press to have the other person unburden themselves? How would the other communicate more subtly that (a) they don't need to or want to talk now but it's not a rejection or (2) yes, they're ready? This would be early in the relationship(s), for Luke and Leia they're friends but recently discovered they're siblings. How would that play in? As for Han and Leia they've been snarking so long being serious and mutually supportive would doubtless be a novel experience.

 

gg

 

Thanks. That's exactly the kinds of things I was looking for.

 

@WarmNyota_SweetAyesha raised an interesting question in the WIP Month thread about what causes the excitement to dry up on a WIP that you previously had a lot of enthusiasm for, and I realized that some of my problems with a particular WIP started when I had a very emotional falling out with a friend who had been a big supporter of the story. I later had cause to doubt that what she said about it was sincere and for a long time trying to work on it felt like “why bother, no one cares anyway.” I let it lapse and when tried to work on it, nothing would come and those feelings of failure have become so entrenched that I dread the thought of even opening the document.

Has anyone else faced a situation like this? Is it possible to separate the story from the negative events and break out of this cycle? How does one get past feeling like they’ve failed when they’re stuck? Do I owe you all for a therapy session for reading this?

 

@Raissa Baiard - that situation with your friend sucks. The only advice I can give is advice that my husband gives me every time I get stuck.

"Who are you writing this for?"

And when I go to throw a pillow at him he counters with "because if it's not you then why are you doing it."

It works (for me at least). I write for me. I love feedback with a fierce passion because I like knowing that other people are reading my stuff and (hopefully) enjoying it. It makes me a better writer. However, I have to write it for me.

Also I think that sometimes it's okay to let a fic die. It's sad and you can mourn (not the right word but close enough) the death of an idea, or the future that you'd hoped that idea would have but it's okay to stop too. I've had a fic I've wanted to rewrite for 20 years because I love it but I hate the ending because it sucks. Recently I've basically thought to myself that while I know how I would have ended that fic and what I would have done differently I'm never going to make/find the time to edit and rewrite it. And that's okay.

If I was you I'd therefore have two options to choose from

a) Force myself to write even if it was only 100 words a night (or a week) because I'm writing it for ME and not for my friend and it makes me happy
b) Realise that it won't make me happy and let the fic go. Mourn it and feel sad but then pick another story and move from there.

And with that I'm going to stop procrastinating on marking the drafts for my Year 10 Psychology class because they do NOT make me happy or bring me joy but they have to be done.

 

@Raissa Baiard I'm sorry to hear about the situation with your friend. That really does suck.

I agree with @Kit' here (her whole post, but this bit especially), and I think that's the key - does it make you happy? Personally and speaking completely for myself here, if I have to force myself to write, it doesn't make me happy and the story doesn't end up feeling right anyway.

For me, abandoning a fic is similar to finishing a book I'm reading. I used to be the type of person who, if I started reading a book, would finish it no matter what. It wouldn't matter if it bored me to tears, if I dreaded picking it up, if I just quit reading for weeks at a time because I wouldn't let myself start a new book until I'd finished that one, I had to read the whole thing. And the busier I got with real life things, the less time I had to read and then I was wasting the time I did have on something that didn't even interest me. Now I've accepted that some books just aren't for me, and if I start it, give it a chance, and still don't like it, I move on to the next one. Over the years I've become the same with my writing. I won't just give up on a story if I'm struggling with something or it's not quite where I want it, but if it's not fun and it doesn't make me happy, it's time to move on.

I hope some of that made sense. I should be sleeping right now but I'm not.

 

I've been thinking a lot about my story, and @Kit' , @amidalachick and @devilinthedetails advice, and I've decided it's probably for the best if I let this one go. Working on it hasn't made me happy for a really long time. As much as I love the main character and want to tell his story, I feel like this one went off the rails, partly because of the lack of confidence after my falling out with my friend and partly because I think I tried to do too many "cool" things with it. Maybe someday I can come back to it and streamline the plot (although by that time, canon may have caught up with me ) But forcing myself to keep trying on something that consistently frustrates me isn't doing either me or the story any good. Even though it makes me sad to give up on it, I think it's better if I do.

 

@Raissa Baiard -- I agree with the above commenters. madman007 had a similar sentiment even in his signature text that you're basically writing for yourself, writing the stories you want to read about the characters you love. And sad as it seems, I have encountered this not personally thankfully, but 2 very talented lovely and lovable authors who were close RL friends had a falling out and their stories got derailed as a consequence. Hopefully the germ of the inspiration of the idea for the story you are shelving will arise again in such a new, varied context that it will feel brand spanking new enough to pick up again.

 

I may be remembering this wrong, as I have not read it in a long while, and I recall that often-times, my responses did not match what you were thinking, however, here goes:

I tend to have a fascination for things like The Blob, and the last one I encountered was called The Vam, in a Torchwood novel, just went around, slapping bits of itself over people, absorbing them, and growing bigger in the process.

It spoke English. And made a living travelling the stars, consuming all organic life on a planet.

Torchwood, or other authorities noticed that it was leaving behind chemical pools that turned out to be very similar to, if not actually, crude oil; and negotiated a treaty with it: "Here's a quarry. How about we use you as a rubbish dump, mainly plastics, you seem to dig those; and we'll take that dark, viscous stuff that you leave behind. Yeah yeah, we'll find a use for it, don't you worry."