Senate Asian Geopolitics

I'm confused what the racism complaint is against the South China Morning Post using the term "charm offensive?"

 

We are getting out of subject here, but I'll try to make this small anecdote quick:

During one of my travel in Asia a few years ago, I heard some westerners and mainlander Chinese people complaining about the Hong-Kong people being "racist" towards mainland Chinese people. While, ironically Hong-Kong people are ethnically Chinese people as well, which have fled the Chinese Civil war, the Great Leap Forward as well as the Cultural Revolution, even if it meant to live under British rule (where discrimination was high) when Hong-Kong was still owned by the UK.

I heard similar complains about the South China Morning Post, the newspaper was created when Hong-Kong was under British rule and which seem to be biased against the government of Beijing, while in reality, since Hong-Kong is no longer under British rule, the newspaper now belongs to the big Chinese corporation Alibaba Group (which you can call the rival of Amazon in some ways) for which its headquarters are located in mainland China and owned by Jack Ma.

Hong-Kong people are certainly arrogant and don't really like mainland Chinese people since both Chinese people who found refuge in Hong-Kong, and mainland Chinese people have become really different people for a big number of reasons (the Cultural Revolution is one the reasons since it profoundly changed traditions and habits of life in mainland China), but you can't really consider Hong-Kong people and their institutions as racists towards Chinese people since they are ethnically the same people.

My point is: I think a lot of people are using the word "racist" without really knowing its definition and therefore, are using it very lightly, or even using it as way to shut arguments or critics. And this isn't really good at all, especially in the current time period we are living in with the growing tribalism everywhere in our societies.

 

I've traveled to Hong Kong and Mainland China about 3-6 times a year for much of the last decade -- I'm familiar with a lot of the intricacies, have a lot of coworkers there (mix of British, Hong Kong folks, and mainland Chinese), and knew people at very senior levels of industry there.

My question was more for vnc, and whether he is aware of the intricacies.

 

China and India have begun firing and killing eachother soldiers as well.

Oh boy, 2020 is on full blown party mode now.

 

Wait china? and what is China's standing on Pakistan? None conspiracy or us state department backed sources please

 

China and India's issue's dont seem new, in the sense that they've been going for at least a month this year at levels elevated above the normal tension.
Early stuff in May: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...imalayan-border-escalate-200527120501581.html
The most recent incident leading to actual deaths: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/06/india-soldiers-killed-ladakh-face-china-200616072909922.html

Heavy on the Indian point of view here, though, but one starting point for some info on this round of it.

 

Pakistan is China’s BFF and China has a border dispute with the entire Asia, inc. of course India. There's also been a growing anti-China sentiment in India with the rise of Modi-style nationalism. Maybe this mutual antagonism is reaching its boiling point.

 

While these things are always worrying, I doubt ti will escalate. Similar instances have occurred in the past, and, of course, neither of these countries is looking for a shooting conflict with one another. Of course, apart from the rising tensions between the countries due to domestic changes, India notably refused to join the Belt-and-Road-Initiative, India is a potential global rival to China in the future, and China supports Pakistan.

 

Trying to find official sources online, but some are reporting India has placed it army and airforce on high alert.

17 additional soldiers have been killed.

 

China once had quite a few tributary states all the way down to India - back when a united India had never been a thing. It's a different world now - one in which, owing to the prevalence of sea transportation, India is positioned straight across the supply lines between China and most of its old world markets, and on a course to become China's systemic rival later this century unless their growth gets strangled now.

 

India is also specifically spurning much of China's Belt and Road initiative. I can't imagine that's not behind some of the tension, if not most/all of it.

https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/india-challenges-chinas-belt-road-intentions

 

I do not think that the current dispute between India and China is only related to the Belt and Road Initiative and it may not be the main subject of the current dispute (although it may be indirectly related as well, but rather for the much longer term), since China's provocative move towards India the past few months may be due to different reasons:

1- A bit surprisingly, India and Australia have both signed two bilateral military agreements at the beginning of this month: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/asia/india-australia-military-agreements-intl-hnk/index.html

This poses a direct challenge to Beijing's ambitions in South China sea, as well for its sea's routes accross the Pacific and Indian Ocean. And relations between Australia and China have also deteriorated ever since the Australian government asked for an independent inquiry on the origin of the coronavirus. With the military alliance between Australia and India, Beijing is certainly not happy at all against India and may want to tease India over old disputed territories between the two countries, without risking full scale war.

2- China has made several provocative moves as well against the Phillipines, Malaysia and Vietnam in the disputed waters of the South China sea during the past few months:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/asia/china-malaysia-indonesia-south-china-sea-intl-hnk/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...disputed-south-china-sea-island-idUSKBN23H1EZ

And as well against Taiwan: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...r-plane-third-intrusion-in-days-idUSKBN23N15D

One may think that China want to take the opportunity to make military moves and claim sovereignty over disputed territories while U.S. warships in the Pacific Ocean are affected by the Covid-19 pandemic, and the rest of the world is too busy trying to contain the coronavirus. But that would be too reckless and so far, China's moves have been limited to several provocative incidents with foreign countries in Asia.

I rather think that the Chinese government, right now, wants to distract its own people from their own economical and societal problems with nationalist claims, by claiming sovereignty over old disputed territories and by finding some scapegoats. Ever since the coronavirus as hit the entire world, the world's economy is in the toilet and demand for products, especially Chinese made products, has plummeted.

The Chinese government has legitimate fears that the collapse of the world's economy and the rising unemployement in China may as well provoke social unrest within China. Especially many people in China come from the coutryside and small villages to work in factories and in the big cities and now they find themselves jobless because of the pandemic and the economical crisis. And those workers don't really have social or unemployment security.

So I don't think that, right now, in the short term, China's move are for increasing its military presence and influence, or even for its Belt and Road Initiative project. They rather want to agitate a scarecrow in order to keep their people on the line with increasing nationalism sentiment for the past few years, when they might know that there won't be any economical recovery before the end of this year.

 

Beloved Sister finally had that tantrum play out from last week.

 

Who is this random?

 

I don't buy the idea that two countries are destined to fight simply because they.can match each other in power. Fighting is a political choice.

 

Right, its like with WWI, it was only inevitable so long as imperialism continued, and the self-preservation of the state is fumbled like miscommunication in WWI, or saberrattling leadership in that same case

You....you really don't get what norms and broad criticism is do you? They don't have to be racist to play into, or be listened to and propagated in a way that serves or can serve racists. That is so freaking basic I have no idea how to explain it more in depth without literally defining how sociology works. You post and/or see the headlines that fit on some level a bias that you and your circles have been ingrained with due to yellow peril and racist reporting.

My remark was not singularly that headline in a vacuum is racist or even individually is per se; rather the point is exactly what the linked tweets show, a general trend has been propped up due to racism and fearmongering in the west, so non-racist coverage ends up being dragged into and passed around in a way that can reinforce your pre-supposed biases and racism.

You seem so desperate not to even question the possibility that there is yellow peril in reporting and in what type of language is passed around in your own circles that you just deflect with.....what I think was meant to be snark? Maybe question why that framing is one that stood out to you, or why SW Fan's video pick was one that comes from a deeply bigoted and decrepit source? Maybe it is all individual actors and headlines that exist in a vacuum and thus cannot POSSIBLY portray something racist without themselves being racist, or maybe you have biases and are surrounded with specifically framing and sensationalism to the point that even non-racist, actually quite CCP biased famously, sources find their way to you when they can be framed in a way that meets what you have decided the world looks like.

Cause you didn't find out about ships showing up in a vacuum, that gets passed around cause it fits what people want to hear, and the headline works for sensationalism that works accordingly. If it was just stated "humanitarian aid brought by mainland to Hong Kong", you probably would not have seen it circulated would you? But if it fits the narrative, or at least the headline does, then suddenly "concerns have been raised" and you are off to the races with suspicions. The racism is not in the headline itself you goof, it is in the reactions and circulation. In the same way that studies that are very specific and don't prove anything more than an unrelated thing, will often be cited by people like Charles Murray to defend claims of race science. The study is not racist, its source is not racist, the findings are not racist, but who and why that study is cited everywhere IS racist.

Or do you just unironically by "I'm just saying" and "well they said it" claims? There is a larger ill, that is evident in the post, even without the post itself being that thing. But whatever clearly you have decided yellow peril does not exist, you are enlightened, have fun

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think that Lordban meant that it was a law of nature. It's just a reality however that China, as the rising power has an interest in keeping India down.

 

do they? They are MASSIVE trade partners. China goes after smaller wins like Vietnam post the war with the states ending, or Mongolia before the Soviets showed they would not let them make a grab, or Taiwan as a small island until it was completely armed to the teeth.

India is not worth the trouble, particularly when China's larger ambitions are in Africa. Now if India makes moves there, then I will probably agree with Lordban

 

I would bet, in the unlikely event of a war to happen, it would be kickstarted from the India side and not from the China side. Mostly because Modi’s career and ego are far more dependent on public opinion and strongman nationalism, whereas Xi (who has assured his eternal ruling) is much more concerned with economic growth and stability.

The fact that India’s economy is still largely dependent on those China imports is a good reason to NOT escalate things further, but sometimes, international wars do not follow good reasoning.

 

China is the emerging power in the region. It has an interest in having the nations whom it trade compliant to their policies and interests. If they aren't they will use pressure. India, in particular (as with Japan and South Korea), are threats to China's hegemony in the region. I doubt it will result in a shooting war, but economic warfare is definitely on the cards for all of these nations which aren't secured in their orbit. India is not part of their Belt and Road Initiative, and once they develop they will easily rival China in their power. India having such a large share of China's export market makes it particularly vulnerable to China's wrath if it tries to do it's own thing, which China itself is vulnerable to.

 

It's frustrating trying to get actual quality news of what's going on from within the region. China heavily censors inconvenient or embarrassing facts, while India has jingoistic and nationalist news media that makes things up as well (I'm looking at you, "300 terrorists died" that were actually trees).

 

It doesn't help that these fights are happening in the middle of nowhere.

 

wait that's a thing? Brings a whole new meaning to "cut the tall trees".....ok sorry to dark. But seriously link please