ST Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Wizard of Earth sea...the character of Ged is described in book as having 'Red-Brown skin" When it came time for the TV adaption:



So again, I will look at each situation, and will call out the ones I feel need to be called out.

Actually, I'll keep watching depending on how it's handled.

Since Thor is now using an Axe in the MCU, and since I actually LIKED the comics design where he'd lost his arm and had it replaced...there's some interesting story telling opportunities here. We could use this to bring in characters like Beta Ray Bill and Thunderstrike while still having Thor and his Axe weapon looking to rebuild his people and redefine himself.

 

LOL, that guy's so bland. Where did they find him?

 

There is absolutely no reason that a POC can't be cast in a fictional movie/tv/play. It's fiction. If one can suspend belief that dragons exist or mermaids exist or elves exist or a mystical Force that gives you powers exists, you can believe a POC is the main character of any movie/tv/play. POC are real, yet for some reason having them cast in a role is more unbelievable than a flying dragon.

There are millions of roles that white people have taken in Hollywood over the years. Simply look at the best actor and actress list at the Oscars and compare the white people to the POC.



This is absurd. POC don't get hired in roles because Hollywood gives a white person a role more than 80% of the time. Everything is geared and written about white people. The only way to get change is to be the change. It's 2020. It's time Hollywood hires POC in roles instead of giving everything to white people.

Hiring and casting Finn and Poe as MOC was a good start in terms of Star Wars opening itself up to diversity, as well as having the main character be female, but they deserved better written stories. Same goes for Rose and Jannah. Rogue One was a much better example of diversity with well written stories.

They cast a Black actress as Ariel in The Little Mermaid and that was a wonderful move by Disney. I'm excited to see that movie when it comes out. They cast a Black actress as Hermione in the Harry Potter play, and she was fantastic (I saw it, and she was a perfect Hermione, better than EW in the films, IMO).

 

Yes but representation really means in relation to country's population. So while 80% is too much for white representation which is 56% or so of America (where Hollywood is from) you can't expect that 13% of population will be represented as 50% or higher in movies and TV. In fact, Latinos who are 18% of the country are less represented in media than AA who are 13%. So what it is happening is demand for new over-representation to make up for old over-representation. Which is why we get replacements and out of (cultural, historical, other) context insertions that stick like sour thumbs. of course, ethno states don't have to worry about it so their cinema is all one ethnicity all the time.

Rogue One is a poor example of diversity because the characters were completely unmemorable. They were literally distinguishable only as Asian dude with a stick, Asian dude with a gun, Mexican accented rebel but nothing more than that basic description of their physical appearance.

 

Im not a mega R1 fan but I think you're wrong.

 

Not to me. I found them very distinguishable, especially considering it was a stand alone film, and not a trilogy. They had one film to build these characters and I found them all believable. I would've loved more, but they told their story. Jyn and Cassian were the leads, but I adored all of the supporting cast, too.

And Hollywood is more than just "America". Hollywood films are representative of the entire world. There's absolutely no reason why so many of Hollywood films need to be 80% white, both behind and in front of the camera.

 

We will agree to disagree. I thought that R1 characters were the blandest cardboard cutouts this side of actual cardboard cutouts. The director clearly cared only about splosions and phew phew and not at all about characters which is no surprise. See Godzilla. Or don't.

Hollywood movies may represent the entire world but you'll be surprised how many countries want to see movie stars, not locals moonlighting in Hollywood. They have their own well developed cinemas and TV so they are not hungry for representation in big movies where they want to see RDJ and Tom Cruise and non-white stars such as Will Smith and The Rock. But point is they want to see Hollywood stars not a telenovela guy who lucked out with a Star wars role or similar to it. And they certainly don't want to see their superstars (Donnie Yen) playing third bananas to some randos nobody ever heard of.

 

I've seen things talked about in regards to race changing non white characters with white actors/actresses.

I said it's why I don't think much about a black director using a mostly black cast. Specifically with something like Black Panther, where I think it'd make sense to have a mostly black cast. Why should I expect a black director to cast anything other than what he himself has a personal leaning towards, as he himself is black? I'm not gonna assume Finn drinking from a trough is particularly racial. It's hot, it's funny for a character to drink from something an animal is drinking from, I'm more reminded of, if I remember correctly, Back To The Future 3, that, if I remember correctly, I think has Marty do that.

Not that they don't know anyone whose not white, but more that they'd cast what they themselves know personally, as in them being white, so they cast white people, because they're white.

I also think people get attached to a an actor. Not to say, none of that was based on race. But I think, to me, there may be room for a perception, where some may get attached to a look for a character.

 

My point with regards to Rogue One was it didn't feel like "oooh, look, we're being diverse! we deserve brownie points!" rather: it was diverse and it wasn't a big deal. That's how all movies should be.

Hollywood is also more than Blockbusters. Indies exist. Comedies, dramas, sci-fi, romance, documentaries all exist. There is NO reason to keep them all 80% white, which is what Hollywood continuously does. The Oscars are a perfect example of this.

 

They aren't keeping indies and mid range movies white. But big talk are blockbusters as well as female under-representation in action movies (though they are super represented in all other genres). Which tends to happen if you cast size zeros and give them to beat guys three times their size. That's not very convincing and won't put butts in seats.

IMO, R1 felt exactly like quota filler cause there was nothing to those characters but that they were this or that ethnicity. I can't say anything about Mexican rebel's personality for there's none. I can only say that he had Mexican accent. Likewise, all I can say about Shaolin monk sterotype is that he's a Shaolin monk streotype right down to fights in the dark/ fights blind trope.

 

They are keeping most of those movies white. Look at the Oscars. Indies are a big chunk of Oscar nominations, and it's still predominately white.

I don't agree with you at all re: Rogue One. To me, it was the best and most diverse film of Disney's era.

 

It's the most quota diverse and the most ethnic stereotype diverse. Of course that Asian guy is a wuxia master who needs no gun to take out 10 with 1 swing of his bamboo stick. of course that Mexican back-stabbed someone in the dark alley. of course that Pakstani got blown up. Yeah, so awesome.

Oscars nominate what gets the most acclaim and/or becomes too big to ignore even if divisive (Joker, for example). So you gotta start with critics, festivals and boxoffice. Then move onto televised precursors. They all determine what studios will campaign more vigorously and what they'll have to let go. On top of that, there's genre bias, ever changing political and social climate, release date (earlier releases tend to lose momentum), distributor (streaming service bias!), internal competition (no studio manages to get more than 3 movies in and that's very rare). So lots of factors before AMPAS voting even begins.

 

We'll have to disagree about Rogue One, because I think it's a fantastically diverse film.

The point is, Hollywood is still predominantly white. That's the problem. Hollywood needs to hire more POC in movies, both in front of and behind the camera, if we ever want true change to take place. There's no reason that the Oscars need to be that white, unless there's no POC movies for them to choose from and *that* is the problem.

 

Korean movie and director just won Picture and Director. But Oscars so white cause wrong ethnicity won, right? Transparency of the highest order.

 

Diego Luna, Donnie Yen, and Riz Ahmed are movie stars and actors. Suggesting that they are not real actors or movie stars is ridiculous, Implying that they only got the parts due to their skin color and to fill some quota is also ridiculous.

 

That's the first ever foreign language film to ever win best picture. It took until 2020 for it to happen. And did you see the backlash it caused? There was out cries of how "unAmerican it was" that it won Best Picture. That's the problem, it needs to change. It needs to happen enough times that there's no out cry. It needs to be normal.

 

There were those outcries and there were outcries that Oscars were so white. I bet the latter wouldn't happen if Nigerian or Sierra Leone movie won. Lets not pretend that Oscarssowhite is about any/all diversity and representation.

@starfish Only Donnie Yen is a movie star. Putting the other two in the same league is preposterous. They are actors but not movie stars.

 

I think I remember Marty doing that, but eh, I could be misremembering.

I don't think that. They're directors. I don't think someone has an obligation to cast someone outside of their preference for the character, in regards to them perceiving a character based on what they know. My preference is it being for an original work. But it's not a life or death issue. I take how the character's used as more of a writing issue, not a casting one.

I find, my opinion, that movie not that strong. I think it has interesting aspects, that I think it doesn't use as strongly as I think would be as interesting, to me.

 

Oscars So White deserves the out cry from the public. Look at the chart. It speaks for itself. "OscarsSoWhite" is a thing and it needs changing. Parasite winning was a good change. But we need more and we need it consistently.

 

The only change that oscars need is to go away. ratings are in free-fall because the show is an outdated entertainment that's overlong, self-congratulatory and now it's much more about daily politics than movies. The stage is a soap box where overpaid entitled celebrities lecture less fortunate and think that embroidering an expensive custom-made designer dress with some political message is incredibly relatable to anyone who never saw the kind of money spent on the said dress. They are out of touch and so are awards. People can catch clips on YT and twitter minutes after they happen so no need to doze off thought 4 hours of predictable diatribe. Moreover, since most nominees are Who Hell That variety, really no point turning up. They'll have to go streaming eventually.

 

I'd heard of Diego Luna and Riz Ahmed before Rogue One. I had not heard of Adam Driver, John Boyega or Daisy Ridley before TFA. Yes, they'd been in other things, but I had not heard of them. Diego Luna and Riz Ahmed have a very strong filmography.

 

There's a difference between a movie star (opens movies on name alone which is what Donnie Yen does in Asia) and actors in movies who do not open (majority of actors including the rest of R1 cast). Harrison Ford was a movie star. Leo and The Rock are still movie stars (relics of past eras when star system still existed which it doesn't anymore). Few others too but everyone else can't open. Franchises/brands are now openers, not star names.

 

Movie stars aren't really a thing anymore. They used to be, but there's not too many stars that can open a movie singularly on their name. The point is, though, Riz Ahmed and Diego Luna weren't cast to meet a diversity quota. They were cast because they'd been in the business a while and the casting director/director liked them.