Reference Vox Popoli II - Return of the Interview - Now featuring LordTroepfchen

Have you ever become too attached or invested in a character you have created? If yes, tell the story.

 

Hello Ananta, Happy 4th! Hope all is well.

Have you ever become too attached or invested in a character you have created? If yes, tell the story.

Oh, great question, LOL!

I grow attached to ALL my characters, every single one. LOL!! I invest insane amounts of energy on their behalf, because they must feel as real as possible.
I know a few players here that do the same or similar.

But the relevant story I'm sharing today took place ages ago, during the height of B.O.P., the game was Balance of Power, LightSide_Apprentice was the GM and I was playing my premiere character at the time, a grey jedi. Long story short, my character was facing-off against Commander Mitth’s character, who was utilizing Ysalamiri to negate my grey jedi’s force ability in order to kill him in-game.

I remember being furious, not only because of ‘real’ character death ( my first truly beloved force user, nooooo! LOL ), but because Ysalamiri, in my opinion, couldn’t possibly exist and the author who created them had no imagination or understanding of the Force. How could creatures repulse the force, which is the very thing that gave them life ( circular argument follows ). Not to mention the very real competition that existed between the 'Imperial Faction' and the 'Force Users Faction' at the time. So, I recall being still furious and deciding to not only leave the game once my character was killed, but the RPF all together *( it was an epic tantrum, KYLO REN is nothing in comparison, lol ).

So, my character dies, Commander Mitth gets his trophy kill, and LSA pulls a rabbit out of a hat and resurrects my character, placating me in the process ( yeah, drama, lol ). Oh, attachment: a jedi craves you not, but a grey jedi is impassioned by it.

Today, character death is simply a part of the story, it furthers the narrative more completely and realistically. I've had several characters die in many games already. The attachment is still there, but so is the balance and harmony of the character’s journey, which in the end, makes it all worth it.

The circle of life is complete, and All is well in the universe.

 

@Sinrebirth

Thankfully, that incident took place very early in my RPF career and there's been a great deal of personal growth since then. I think the opposite is true now. When I get quiet, watch out!!

And wow!!! I had no idea TheSithGirly managed what I imagined to be a near impossible feat. GASP!!!! That's one for the RPF history books. Thank you for sharing that, good sir!!

The RPF has been home to us for many long years, it has seen some of us through thick and thin and shall continue to do so. Long Live the RPF!!

 

To be honest, I had no idea who Insipid was (and still don‘t know a lot about him, except he seems close to Sinre‘s heart). I just needed someone to be executed by Lord Krayt to show I was not the guy you challenged without consequences. Oh, I had fun.

 

I think I can safely ascertain that Lord Krayt made his point. LOL!!

 

Oh I remember how after that scene the „trash talking“ about Darth Krayt stopped immediately and everybody suddenly accepted his leadership with absolute obedience. The plan worked very well. Loved what you did with that character. Completely forgotten what a terrible Sith you can actually play, @TheSithGirly

 

Oooh I like this thread.

Good job esp. to @greyjedi125 and @Sinrebirth for your awesome long interviews.

And to @SirakRomar for executing this great idea!

-I_H

 

@Imperial_Hammer

Hello there, sir!! So happy to see you. I believe we would be immensely honored to have a long interview with you!!! Isn't that right? @SirakRomar

 

Last day for questions. Tomorrow my next one goes up. It will feature the Master of Limmie himself, @Trieste

 

Interview #3: Trieste

@Trieste, your game Elite League Limmie has recently seen it‘s tenth birthday. Wow. Ten years is quite an achievement! Let us go right to the beginning of it. How did you come up with the game and it‘s truly unique premise?

Wow is right--somehow that decade mark just slipped by! Prior to coming to the JC forums I'd been part of a forum-based Star Wars roleplaying group for a number of years. As a way of adding flavor to that world, I casually started a sideline of making sports scores. Sports are something I've enjoyed watching in real life and it seemed like something that would be part of the lives of a lot of characters even in the Star Wars universe. I chose limmie since it was the most popular field sport of canon in the Star Wars galaxy.

That community eventually began to fade into inactivity. One of my close collaborators who was engaged with limmie was @Vehn, who began scouting for a new place to roleplay with limmie as a standalone game since we enjoyed it so much. He suggested JC as a potential home and after some investigation we thought it was the kind of thriving community that would make a good home.

Could you tell us a bit about the game for those who had not the pleasure of playing in it? How does it work? What are the mechanics? How does the roleplaying work?

The mechanics are actually so simple that I'm probably the least-hardworking GM on the board. Every Sunday I use Random.org to generate a score between 0 to 30 for each team based on a schedule of match-ups announced at the start of each season. Those scores are what the players use to generate posts for the week. However, if you post during the week you get what we call "bonus potential" where you get a 0 to 40 score for that week. This was suggested by @Winged_Jedi, who counseled me prior to launch. WJ thought there should be an incentive for players to post and it was a brilliant idea.

So, what is the secret to keep a game running for ten years straight? How the hell did you do that?

The biggest reason that limmie's gone on so long is that it's really not my doing: it's the work of the players. ELL allows people to tell the stories that they want to tell in the context of sport (and sometimes that's just a loose context). It's a sandbox instead of a guided experience. @galactic-vagabond422 put it so well that it's in my signature: "You can write anything in Limmie if you know what you are doing." All I do is give scores and then folks run with them. Some players have told stories where it doesn't matter whether they win or lose. Others tie themselves deeply to game results. There's no right or wrong way to play it.

You must have seen many changes throughout the years. Players coming and going, the Move, several Mods. How did it affect your game?

ELL is built (by chance, rather than design) to weather the comings and goings of players. We transition new teams in and out between seasons, inspired by the promotion/demotion mechanic of a league like the English Premier League. If someone comes back (and they sometimes do!) it's just easy to bring their team back up.

We got creative to weather it when it became clear that the Move was going to take longer than expected. We decided to say the league was on hold due to an officials strike (well before the NFL officials strike that resulted in the replacement crews that called the Fail Mary) and we ran some one-off events to fill the gap. There was a series of regional challenges for teams, an all-star game, and finally a college limmie season. College limmie later spun off as something that @Bardan_Jusik runs. I'm actually running my main story for the current season in conjunction with him (yes, I actually play as well as serve as the GM--which adds a layer of complexity to the whole deal).

The biggest thing about the Move was the post truncation. I hadn't saved the thread before the process began, trusting everything would be there when we got back, so there's a lot of writing that took place in the early seasons that's just lost now. Luckily, I keep a local copy of the scores saved locally, so that history is preserved.

As for changes in mods, I've barely noticed. I think we're a rule-abiding group so we don't have much reason to interact with them, but since Bardan_Jusik is a mod in another part of the forums we'll sometimes run things when we're unsure if there could be an issue. He can usually give us a preliminary opinion to prevent any conflicts before they happen. When I joined ten years ago I was impressed by the extensive rules posts that had already been developed. While I haven't had a need to review them much since, they set a groundwork where we knew what was allowed and wasn't. As some rules have changed (the biggest for our game was when same-sex relationships could be openly portrayed), we've incorporated them.

Any players you especially miss? Anyone you regret not having around anymore?

A lot of folks have passed in and out of the game over the years, so I feel a little guilty picking favorites among them! Even so, though he's still around reading the thread and commenting in our OOC thread, I do miss @jcgoble3 as a game participant. He pulled off one of the biggest bangs (literally) in game history and created some iconic characters. In general, the more people in ELL, the better, so I'd be thrilled to juggle 20 different players all at the same time--though I should probably be careful what I wish for!

So you actually got a very loyal following. Tell us a bit about your players and how you manage them.

I have jokingly said periodically that I am "a benevolent-ish dictator" (a quote from Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law cartoon that I think is an underappreciated gem), but in reality I try to achieve consensus rather than hand down the law from on high. When I'm considering changes to the game, I put them out there in advance to get reactions, sometimes publicly in our OOC thread and sometimes in private conversations. Because of the way that ELL is structured, I see it not as "my game" but as "our game" so I don't feel right legislating, even if I make decisions in the end.

As for the players (in order of when they joined the game):

• Vehn has been with limmie since the beginning and we've known each other for over half our lives. I actually went to his wedding--and it was the first time we'd ever met in person (that was an interesting reception toast, let me tell you).
  
• @Jedi Gunny has been on board with ELL since it started on the JC Forums and has been a foundational figure. Though he's riding a championship drought of epic proportions right now, he ran the team to beat in the early days (and is looking like the team to beat this season too).
  
• jcgoble3, though not currently active, is still part of the family. I still smile when I think about the "NADIEM CHEIFS" joke he pulled the first time his team hosted the championship game.
• Bardan_Jusik has created an ingenious vehicle for his posts that is so much fun I'm envious of him (more so than the terrific run of championships he--randomly, as we always remind him --chalked up).
• @Runjedirun brings these amazing, character-centered stories week after week. The way that she plumbs the depths of family relationships and emotions blows me away. She's taken some incredible risks in her storytelling and they've all paid off. Heck, she took a running gag and told a fantastic story out of it. (Briefly put, we use to say you could be anyone connected to your team: a player, a coach, a fan, even the guy who puts the cheese on the nachos. RJR played the guy who put the cheese on the nachos and stadium snacks have never been the same.) She also once kept me from sleeping through a flight home!
  
• galactic-vagabond422 is the man with a plan. He builds stories over the course of a season that are intricate and well-plotted. For a world with such little presence in the Star Wars canon, he's made Carratos into a vibrant world that I can picture instantly not just due to strife like civil wars and terrorist attacks, but a history of team bars and sea shanties (yes, really). He was also let me poach one of his former characters for use with my team. Considering I might not have returned the favor if he'd asked, his generosity in collaboration is impressive.
  
• @SWNerd11 intends to return to the game soon, which I’m looking forward to since he’s resurrecting a longtime team that’s always been fun to have around. He’s been a great collaborator whenever he’s been part of the game and we’re usually in a race with each other to see who can get a player based on a Marvel or Arrowverse character going first. (I’m pretty sure he still hasn’t completely forgiven me for nabbing Peggy Carter a while back.)

Have you actually never considered starting another game?

Considered? Yes. Realistically considered? No. The truth is that even though ELL doesn't ask a lot of me as a GM, I love the game so much that I play a team in it so it keeps me busy. I also write a fanfiction (that uses some of the same characters from ELL) and that pretty much takes up my remaining creative writing time and energy. I'm actually a writer by trade (not the cool, Next Great American Novel kind) so I spend a lot of time as it is in front of a computer and don't often have the stamina for much more writing than I already do. I've been in a couple of other RPGs (two that come to mind are @Jedi Gunny's Podracing game and @spycoder9's A War of Kings) and enjoyed them, but they've been the exception, not the rule.

How many seasons have you actually played in ten years? Did you change the mechanics over the years? Did you adjust the game?

We are in our 37th season, which is pretty wild. There are people who have played the adult-aged children of characters they played in the past. Every few seasons, or whenever things feel like they're getting stale, we talk and sometimes change the mechanics. For example, when the game started all teams got a 0 to 35 score if they didn't post. This went for NPC teams that we had in the rotation too. It turned out those NPC teams were winning a lot. We decided that wasn't fun and that we should boost the chances of people who posted. As a result, we dropped the non-posting/NPC score range to 0 to 30.

We've also toyed with the number of NPC teams in the league. For many years there was always at least one and over time those games started to feel like filler. There wasn't any opportunity for collaboration and most of the time you were just looking forward to your next game against a player-controller team. That got me thinking about a year ago: what if we just got rid of the NPC teams entirely? We did that and it's been great to have every game feel like it matters since you're always squaring off with another player.

One innovation was to do a draft for new players rather than have people make up players out of thin air. It's now one of the most exciting times of the game. I know that at least one player does a draft board beforehand. From a storytelling perspective, it's been a popular way to kick off new characters, even if they're not players being drafted.

Some changes were minor. I started the game using the Wizards of the Coast Dice Roller to do the scores, but jcgoble3 pointed out Random.org not only could generate 0 scores, but it was also mathematically more random than Wizards.

So what are your plans for the future? We all hope Limmie will be around forever, of course. It has become part of these boards like the banners and Mods really.

It's pretty amazing to hear someone say something like that. I've always felt like we're in our weird little corner doing our own thing, but you make us sound like we're an institution! I don't have much in the way of plans as GM. The way the game refreshes itself with each season means I don't have to plan. But what would I hope to see in the future? I'd love to have some new players join (there's actually one who's working with me right now which is exciting) because I feel the more people involved, the better the game is. I acknowledge that some people might find it intimidating to join up given the game's been going on so long. The good news is that one of my jobs as GM is helping people settle in and set them up to have fun.

You are among the most mysterious GMs around here, so would you share a bit about yourself? Only what’s you are comfortable with, of course.

Maybe I'm a little less mysterious now that I've said so much this interview, but it's true that it's been quite a long time since I was last in Hooper's or any of the general social threads. I will say that if you follow Out of Bounds, our OOC thread (on the topic of changes over time, the innovation of the RPF Resource board had a huge impact on ELL) you'll get to know plenty about me in time.

Keeping with the sports theme, by chance I'm a fan of teams that aren't exactly bad, but also never quite pull it together. I also play adult league hockey every week. Though we're on a COVID break right now, it's usually the highlight of my weekend.

On the fun side, anyone who's read my writing knows I'm a redophile (you get in much less trouble typing it than you do saying it because people usually hear something else). It's pretty much a guarantee in my posts that whenever you meet a redhead she is going to be pretty awesome.

I also get asked periodically if I'm ever going to write a novel by friends and the truth is that the JC Forums scratch that itch for me. More than that, I get to write with cool people who tell great stories here. If I was to ever seriously give it a go, I'd probably have to stop what I'm doing here and...well...I don't know if I'll ever be willing to give this up!

Thanks a lot for the interview, I open the floor to questions.

Any time! Glad to talk more about anything folks are interested in. By the way, I have this clipboard with ELL sign ups if anyone's interested...just saying.

 

Oohhhhhh buddy I been waiting for this one.

Will return from my morning workout and breakfast with QUESTIONS!

 

Far be it for me to speak for our illustrious GM, but I believe the answer is rum... lots and lots of rum.

 

I'm the first to admit that there's probably a lot I don't keep track of. By way of example, at the end of the season we have in-game awards that the players vote on (like most valuable player, best coach, and being demonstrating dedication). I routinely ask for input from the game on who they think should be nominated precisely because I'm not keeping all of the info in my head. I figure not everyone has every detail of what I'm doing in their mind too.

That said, I definitely work to keep a focus on the broad strokes of each player's story. Over time, people develop touchstones that we can use as reflexive characterizations. These can be about individual players or team identities.

And, since you mentioned it, folks who consider getting it, but find it daunting aren't alone. As I mentioned in the interview post, part of my job (perhaps the biggest thing after creating scores) is to ease the transition for folks looking to make it, precisely because there is so much to wade through.

I can neither confirm nor deny.

 

Did you imagine it would last that long?

 

The short answer is no, definitely not. I didn't have any expectations about longevity when I started. When @SirakRomar pointed out the game has been around for 10 years I didn't believe it at first. I still kind of can't wrap my head around it even when I look at the dates!

 

Aw, thank you. I'm still amused that my ongoing PM thread with you is still titled "Big boom" from when I initially sought approval for that idea.

For anyone who is wondering what the "biggest bangs (literally)" reference is, here's the link to the post: https://boards.theforce.net/posts/51919802 It's a long one, clocking in at almost 6,000 words, so make sure you have an hour to kill (and a snack) before you dive in. It was the middle climax of a multi-season plot, so some of the details reference previous posts, but you should be able to get the gist of it.

Honestly, this really shows the breadth of stories that ELL enables you to tell. It's not just about sports. Even in this game where Force-sensitive athletes are prohibited, I was able to spend multiple seasons writing about a team of Jedi fighting against a group of terrorists. Later in this plot, Jado's sister, who was a player in the ELL, would

Spoiler

join the Jedi on a secret mission, where she would personally help rescue her brother from captivity and fire the shot that would ultimately kill Rosty Bassell.

ELL is a place where you can tell virtually any story you want to tell, even a story that has only the most tenuous connection to sports. And that story can be of any length, from a couple of weeks to many seasons. This game is a sandbox in the truest sense of the word, with no beginning or end, and only the lightest of plots (in the form of scores) imposed on you. That, I am certain, is why Elite League Limmie has survived for so long, when many other games have come and gone: because the game is exactly what you choose to make it.

 

Great interview! Very, very insightful. Now, I got one question, really. How does Limmie work? Is it baseball or more akin to rugby? My main problem always was not having the slightest idea what the sport itself actually looks like.

 

Question 1:

Is a hotdog a sandwich?

Question 2:

What sports teams... specifically are you a fan of, if you want to go further?

Question 3:

Sports, in Limmie and in the real world, feel like the glue that connects all the storylines and people in the world. Was that what you set out to do or did you set out to just have a game about a sport?

Question 4: clearly, Limmie abides by different GM “rules of engagement” and you say it’s organic; that is to say that you GM the way you do because the players play the way they do. Would you coming GMing a strictly strategy/method based endeavor or should it be done however the game and players decide they require it to be done?

 

Excellent question. Based on what little we know about limmie from the canon (largely from the old HoloNet News that used to run on Starwars.com), it was probably conceived of as being close to soccer/football (in fact, "limmie" is actually the Core term for the sport, it's more widely known as "bolo-ball").

However, when I started the game, I thought that was boring. Star Wars sports should be more exciting than what we have here! Therefore I defaulted to a sport that I watch from time-to-time (crazy story about that): Gaelic football. The rules are documented in our library thread, but put simply it's a tackling game with a spherical ball that you can kick or carry that you try to put into a soccer-sized net for 3 points, or between uprights for 1 point. @Winged_Jedi actually counseled me to keep things as simple as possible on the rules because it might be a barrier for people to join, a point he was right in. I smoothed over some of the rougher edges of Gaelic football to make it a little more straight-forward.

To your question, it is much closer to rugby than anything else.

The cool thing is that over time we've had the game be elastic and people have been able to lay their interests on top of it. For example, I'm a hockey fan (as I'll discuss more of below) so I make hockey references all the time. @Jedi Gunny has said that he sometimes uses what's happening with the real-world Ottawa Senators (a hockey team) as inspiration for what happens with his Coruscant Senators. @Runjedirun makes lots of basketball references. @Bardan_Jusik brings college and pro football in.

But the best answer to your question is to just watch a little Gaelic football:

​

Though I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up this video of stills that @Vehn made years ago:

​

I use the cube rule of food. The hot dog is a taco. Come at me.

Thus begins my tale of woe:

• The California Golden Bears, specifically in college football. They have the longest Rose Bowl drought in the Pac-12 (yes, the University of Arizona has never been to a Rose Bowl, but only joined the conference in the 1970s, whereas our last appearance was 1959).
  • I am also a casual fan of their rugby program, which is highly successful, both in sevens (their 5 titles at the College Rugby Championship is the most of any university) and fifteens (roughly 33 championships since 1980--it's complicated, but undeniably the most). They are one of the outliers.
• The San Jose Sharks NHL hockey team. They were the fastest team to lose 100 games as a franchise and famously have excellent regular seasons only to fall flat on their face in the postseason (to the point I now expect them to lose in the first round of the playoffs despite loving them). I will admit sometimes good things happen to them though.
  • I'm a more-than-casual fan of the Buffalo Sabres NHL hockey team. Not only are they oldest team to never win a Stanley Cup, but they purposely tanked their franchise to increase their chances of getting a transformational player with the first overall pick in the 2015 draft...and they are still terrible.
  • I'm a very casual fan of the Arizona Coyotes in the NHL as well. They are the oldest team to never go to a Stanley Cup Final.
  • I should mention that I still have a soft spot for the New Jersey Devils, a team that's actually done pretty well in my lifetime.
• I'm an incredibly casual "oh that's how their game went, that's nice" fan of the San Diego Padres in MLB. They are the only MLB team to go to more than one World Series without having won any. They have a combined 1-8 record in those World Series.
• I used to have a preference for the San Diego Chargers in the NFL, who were guaranteed to implode at just the right moment, but couldn't care less about them today.

It was definitely "let's have a fun game about sport," but I think part of the reason I was inspired was because of the way that sports brings communities together and the role they have in many people's lives. A number of players have had elements to their posts about the positive impact sports can have on people's lives, though we've also addressed the issue of concussions over multiple seasons and acknowledged the complexity of modern sports.

If I understand the question correctly, you're asking about my idea who drives structure: the GM or the players. Ultimately, the GM should define those rules of engagement. While I believe in a collaboration and invite player feedback, I think games in general need strong (but compassionate) GMs. To illustrate, when I started the game my philosophy was "run it as realistically as possible, like a real sports league." This resulted in me handling a game event that I'd do differently now. Luckily, we rebounded from it. Now my philosophy is "help players to have the most fun while being fair to everyone." I try to say yes to as much as I can.

If I GMed a more traditional game, I'd probably try to use a D&D DM model: the more work players put in to selling their vision via their post, the more likely I'd be to say they're successful, within reason.

 

Limmie? Bolo-ball? @Trieste, surely you mean meshgeroya?

 

I don't know what that random combination of letters are, burc'ya.