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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Discussion Where does Star Wars go as an IP from here?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Future Films - Spoilers Allowed' started by 2Cleva, Jan 6, 2020.

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  1. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2016
    Fixed. [face_cowboy]
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
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  2. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 18, 2003
    I agree, the New Republic just sounds off. I really enjoyed the Old Republic a lot. The MMO game ties into all those comic books and novels from that era. Could it have been better? Hell yeah, but it was damn good. The concept for High Republic will be a wait a see. Until we get the first several novels and comic books it will be difficult but yeah the concept is not what I expected. Maybe if they had an animated series or something to add with the novels and comic books, but then again we don't really known much except for the first batch that we are suppose to get.
     
  3. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 18, 2003
    Yes, I definitely agree with this and yes all this keep it in between the movies sounds really great but eventually, you'll run out of concepts. The definitive soldier, spy, agent, jedi, padawan, etc. I believe in going back words and super forwards. The 9 movie saga need to be left behind. I could care less about Mace surviving the fall in Episode 3 since he couldn't have done much, and what is Bad Batch going to do? Fight the new Empire? More tie fighers, star destroyers, and stuff we got 40 years ago. It'll be good don't get me wrong, but how many stories can you tell between the movies before one realizes that we aren't really growing, just cloning and using the stuff that someone else created. I don't know
     
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  4. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 18, 2003
    Now this I like a lot. You know, the OT was special because it was three contained movies that had a beginning, middle, and an ending. The stories were unique for its time and nothing else that came afterwards can truly match it in scale and scope. The special effects were revolutionary for its time with each movie winning an award for that category, and the story was what it was. I somewhat agree that star wars should have just ended back then, but accept the prequels for what they are. Unfortunately, I cringe at another show whether animated or live action being inbetween the movies. Luke Skywalker's journey is the best and most important and nothing should change that. Vader was a tragic fall and that should be it. Not made into a mini Thanos like in the new canon. Still, star wars has to move away because all that I see here is that GL is truly the only one that can do star wars. The six movies are way more interesting, exciting and original compared to what we have gotten so far. TCW was very good because GL worked on it, though some episodes were way to filler for my taste.

    Disney has to prove that it can do star wars by not reusing concepts that were done before and that is going to be a challenge.

    The OT movies, the comic books from that run (Marvel 107 issues, 3 annuals, and the new issue that moved it to 108, along with the 22 comics from star comics, the newspaper strips, the two ewok movies, the ewok and droid animation, the three movie novelizations, the three movie art books, portfolio books, Splinter of the Minds Eye novel, the three Han Solo Books, the three Lando books, the radio adaptions for all three movies, and Ord Mantell record with the story of Han Solo, along with the juvenile books like Maverick Moon were some of the best star wars ever for me and most likely the truest of star wars.

    I, then add the EU from 1991 to 2001 because during that time we got some amazing roleplaying game books from West End Games, additional information on the making of the trilogy to include those beautiful Chronicle books that covered C-3PO and Darth Vader along with the star wars history from Star Tours to Captain EO. Those were the times. Afterwards, things changed a bit and then they changed a lot. Disney I think needs to be creative and I don't think they know how. I credit Dave Filoni with what he's done with John Faverau but GL is Star Wars. He is it.
     
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  5. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2016
    I didn't play Old republic game but I heard a lot about Revan and it's instantly clear why he was so popular. High republic characters are all run of the mill good guys, very bland, very knock-offish at least the synopsis. Old republic characters were interesting in the synopsis already. I don't see why synopsis would make HR ones less interesting since synopsis is the selling point. Without that, people won't show up for surprises.
     
  6. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 18, 2003
    That is very true so far.
     
  7. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 20, 2012
    @vong333 remember not to double or triple post, like you did above.
     
  8. Darth_Bertie

    Darth_Bertie Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 30, 2014
    Fantastic summary of the current state of things with SW. Ideally I would like the nexct set of SW films to be what the PT was for SW as a whole back in the day. This is, something that was innovative enough to be its own thing, but familiar enough in order to feel part of a larger entity.

    SW really needs someone that is not afraid of introducing a new enemy that does not look like a stormtrooper. Ships that are not TIEs, X-Wings, Star Destroyers, villains who did not betray their master and turn to the dark side and started wearing a sinister mask. Certain themes should be put aside. We already know those stories, that aesthetic.

    Now, with all this in mind, I some times question my entire argument. Can SW be still special without the Jedi vs Sith theme? Is there anyone out there who can create a villain as good as Vader? Will any other composer make a theme as special as the Force theme, as Leia's theme or as Yoda's theme? Can SW feel as special as it did back when Lucas was in the command chair?

    I really hope it can but, in 2024, older and wiser, I can't see myself going to the cinema with the same hype I did for TFA.
     
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  9. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

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    Feb 7, 2005
    Look at the projects Disney are actually moving forward on that we know of...

    1) Obi Wan Kenobi tv
    2) Cassian Andor tv
    3) Bad Batch animation
    4) Rumored Lando tv
    5) Rumored Han Solo tv
    6) Mandalorian Season 2 (with Ahsoka and Boba Fett, along with rumored other notables)

    All of these projects, with the possible exception of Mandalorian, I can't remember, were introduced after RJ's new movie (the one that was going to be about totally new characters in a totally new part of the galaxy) was announced and then put on hold. Disney has seen the results of their first five years, and they've clearly moved towards dealing with recognizable aspects of the SW galaxy. It doesn't really matter that a small group of fans preferred TLJ to JJ's films. Disney understands that the majority of SW fans want to watch something that has a context to it. They don't want something completely new and original, unrelated to the core saga. They want something that expands on this incredible galaxy that already exists. It's okay to branch out in new directions. But these stories need to start somewhere the fans can relate to, beyond the theme music, the fact that it's outer space, or the fact that the words Star Wars are part of the title. I believe this is the current path Disney has decided to take. We'll see...

    Perfect example, Legends. Lucas allowed authors to essentially do anything as long as they didn't contradict or interfere with plans he had for his own movies. Why did he allow them to do this? Was it because he felt that bringing in other artists would make the overall canon story better? Hell no! In fact, just the opposite. He allowed them to do it because he never considered it canon in the first place. He's said this a thousand times. He didn't even know who the characters were! Legends was not a case of Lucas illustrating that he wanted lots of artists to experiment in his world. He clearly never even considered the Legends stories canon. I read every single SW novel pre Disney SW. Some were great, many were just ok, most of them were pretty weak. Was the overall presentation of the original three better in Legends? Yes, because Disney's ST was so horrible, and so poorly thought out, that literally any reasonable author could have and did present a better version of Luke, Han and Leia than Disney did. And ironically, the Legends characterizations were far less original, and far less imaginative than what we got in the ST... instead they were just logical and accurate. Which is why they were better. In the end, Lucas decided to cherry pick a few of the best things from Legends to make fans happy, and I'm glad he did. But the idea that Legends somehow shows that Lucas was all about letting people experiment with Star Wars is simply wrong. Lucas himself basically ignored Legends the entire time.

    You might as well use Seth Green's animated show as proof. The one they shelved.

    Actually, no he didn't explicitly sell SW so that others could tell THEIR stories. Lucas was adamant that they use his ST treatment, and when they didn't, he hit the roof. He also spoke on several occasions about the treasure trove of stories he was handing over to Disney (I believe he was talking about all the unproduced episodes of Level 1313). He wanted Disney to tell the stories he was giving them. This is what Lucas has said. I don't recall him ever saying he was looking forward to seeing people experiment with Star Wars, but if you've got the quotes, I stand corrected. He did specifically speak about how he told Iger that he'd been doing this a long time, and that he knew what he was doing, and that Iger should trust him when it comes to story. I don't have the quotes, but these are Lucas' words.

    And if you're arguing that Lucas wanted to separate himself and completely retire, as opposed to the fact that he left due to creative differences, you are wrong. He wanted to essentially "grandfather" the franchise for Disney, and Disney didn't go for it. By ROS, Lucas wasn't even commenting on whether he liked the movie or not. He wasn't rejoicing over the idea that Disney was going off in a direction he hadn't foreseen. He wasn't happy about the fact that Disney was doing it differently than he would have done it. He was very unhappy!

    I don't get to decide it, the fans as a collective are going to decide it. And Disney's upcoming slate of SW projects clearly show where it's at. And it's not new, original SW stories that are completely disconnected from the stories we already love. It's building upon the stories that are already out there in new and exciting ways.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
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  10. Riv_Shiel

    Riv_Shiel Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 12, 2014
    You use the phrase "actually moving forward on that we know of", but then half your list is "rumored". Furthermore, you leave out a CONFIRMED show by Leslye Headland that is rumored to take place in a different part of the timeline. As to the RJ trilogy, I haven't heard any announcement that it has been put on hold. It was always understood that it was going to be a ways down the road when it was announced. Fact is, we just don't know what is or is not going on with it.
     
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  11. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    Agreed. The future is up in the air regarding what we get in the movies.

    We don't at all know that Disney is hedging on familiarity, and the total opposite could be true, in particular for the movies. Solo was the only real commercial "failure" for SW movies, and you can't get any more familiar than that. It's more likely that they are keeping more familiar tie ins (character back stories and such) for Disney Plus, and moving forward with fresher characters and different scenarios in the GFFA in the theater. While we never got actual details, I didn't get the impression that the GOT writers were intending to use familiar scenarios in their movies.

    This is a challenging time for the franchise creatively. They have made a decision not to continue the current saga that seems unquestioned so far, so they will have to come up with something entirely new (at least in terms of characters and general plotlines) that is good (or hopefully great).
     
  12. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2016
    It's easier for Disney to churn out a number of streaming shows than movies hence why they put a lot of OT content on streaming. They are simply weighing in their options which means sorting out what content has cinematic potential and what has streaming one. Different content is better fit for different media. take Solo. The movie flopped so obviously there isn't enough interest to justify another north of 200M budget movie with these characters. However, a streaming show is cheaper and they can take their time and tell good stories with these characters if they deem them to have potential. point being, this is not a downgrade. It's simply being realistic about what medium is most optimal for characters and stories that studio wants to make content with. Some don't generate enough interest for expensive theatrical release but generate enough interest for reasonably budgeted streaming show. And streaming is future anyway which is why it attracts major talent.
     
  13. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

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    Apr 6, 2018
    These days, TV is, quality wise, usually an upgrade. The cinema is mostly for flash bang check your mind and soul at the door stuff like the Avengers and lightly enjoyable junk like that.
     
  14. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Okay Boomer ;):p we know how you feel about todays ding dang cinema
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2020
  15. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

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    Apr 6, 2018
    Dippity doopity bang bang boom!
     
  16. Justin Gensel

    Justin Gensel Jedi Master star 2

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    Jun 11, 2018
    I would argue that another golden era can and will come again for SW. The best parts of the expanded universe proved that there were ways to show new threats that evolved the story beyond just dragging out the corpses of the 'greatest hits' and playing them non-stop. Star Wars would not have remained alive for this long if there hadn't been great ideas between 83 and now to keep the lights on for the fanbase. Star Wars and the people behind it have to grow beyond nostalgia alone for that to happen however, and it feels like right now, only a select few at Lucasfilm have the ability to do that, while still respecting all the work that came before they sat down in the director's chair
     
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  17. PrincessKenobi

    PrincessKenobi Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 12, 2000
    I would love this. And honestly it would be interesting to see the Jedi at the start without threat of the Sith and seeing how they deal with other things and dark force users. Because there are evil forces outside of just the Sith. Also to maybe even see the groundwork that they themselves laid that lead to everything we know as Star Wars.
     
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  18. Darth_Bertie

    Darth_Bertie Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 30, 2014
    This would be so cool. And it seems LFL has already toyed with the idea, since B&W were going to tell the story of the first Jedi. I only see one problem with this. You really need to crack the origin of the Jedi. There can be no screw ups with such a project. It would be the foundation of SW. No mistakes here please.

    A thing I really can't agree with is the over hype some fans have with SW on TV. So far, we have only seen the Mandalorian. Which no doubt has been great. Probably with RO the best SW we have seen from Disney. But it still is the same "safe SW" playing with the aesthetic we have known for decades: the desert planet, the jawas, the Boba Fett suit, the cantina...

    Once you think about it, all the announced TV shows seem to play in the same safe space. The period between the PT and the OT and the aftermath of the OT. Moving forward, SW needs to prove it can move away from that era and that aesthetic and still give the fans something that feels SW but it is new enough.

    BTW, according to LRM, rumors about KK's internal weakness have been largely exaggerated:

    https://lrmonline.com/news/no-kathl...s-no-internal-civil-war-lrms-top-shelf-rumor/
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
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  19. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    I am going to guess you aren't old enough to be a boomer, and are closer to Gen X like myself, maybe a bit younger. You can't "OK Boomer" us, only our parents.

    We can't help it if Millennials and Gen Z are the most culturally adrift of all generations. Avengers is their version of (cough choke) The Godfather. And it's not just movies- look at their music :( Some Millennials were around long enough to take in quality stuff from the 90's, but geez, if your musical generation started after 2000, what music does your generation have to call their own? Justin Bieber? I wouldn't be going around pulling "OK Boomer" on people if my generational pop culture was lead by Bieber; I'd be too embarrassed to throw stones from that glass house.
     
  20. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    The reason why I think this is the approach to take, is that it affords them the opportunity to reduce the scale of the films, both in terms of production and in terms of human drama. We don't need to see Jedi with uber powers, that can stop spacecraft mid flight, or do back flips 30 foot in the air (although I'm not discounting that). Instead, we can get as little or as many Jedi as the writers deem fit, who can be portrayed as being much less superhuman and more 'normal'. It allows us to have other non-Jedi characters who aren't automatically pushed into the background by the uber force users.

    @Darth_Bertie - I agree about The Mandalorian. I see it as a step in the right direction... but we'll have to see more TV content to get a feel for if they really do have a good strategy. A lot hinges on season 2 of The Mando. Similar to you, I'd really like to see something set in a completely different era. I assume that they are not going pre PT in TV, because they are developing something for a live action film (I hope anyway).
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
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  21. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    As is the case after he isn't in charge or consulting. I highly doubt George, after the sting of not being able to tell his ST (which I would have liked to see) he would like people to follow a pre-determined formula. He would absolutely be up for experimentation and new ideas. The reason he didn't like TFA was because it as too conservative. He's not in charge anymore. He would absolutely like see people do new things. That's his MO.
     
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  22. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Okay Gen X'r better ? ;)

    But seriously that's just how things work, culture changes and society changes as the generation changes i'm sure your parents and or grandparents look at the stuff you like and good "What the heck is this weirdness" that just how society movies forward. It will happen to the Millenials and Gen Z's in IDK...50 years too when the next generation starts developing culture.

    That's just how it works things shift.

    Like I said a lot of my own Millennial younger friends think A New Hope is a bit of a snooze fest so even things change.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2020
  23. PymParticles

    PymParticles Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 1, 2014
    I don't think Millennials (who are in their mid-20s - mid-30s) consider The Avengers to be their version of The Godfather. Our closest equivalent is probably something like Breaking Bad, to go back to @Bor Mullet's point about TV being the place where truly transcendent filmmaking happens, at least in America. But I wouldn't expect a Boomer to know that ;)

    Anyway, there are few things I love more than generations irrationally hating on and crapping on each other's achievements. Maybe that should be part of Star Wars going forward. I don't think we've seen any generational conflicts in these movies before :p
     
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  24. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 18, 2003
    Sorry about that, didn't even notice
     
  25. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    True enough that culture shifts, but then there is the idea of being culturally adrift in terms of certain generations (like the younger ones) not appreciating the arts, and pop culture influences; no appreciation for roots and those that created the framework. Trying to teach music to youngsters is like geez, pull your head off of that tablet and learn some appreciation for roots, understand where what you listen to came from. Bring up jazz and they are like, :confused: "Oh, that music that plays in elevators."
     
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