ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

Has nothing to do with it being forced to Shut Down the California one was open for almost a year and it was a disaster. Fans weren't paying for it staying in the hotel and going to the Park. It had issues before 2020.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, but they should've been upfront about it. Nobody saw Into the Spider-Verse thinking Miles Morales was Peter Parker's son, even though the story sets him up as a successor. Even if they wanted the shock twist of "Rey Nobody", the ST would be less disappointing if RJ had followed up with at least something interesting and fitting of an epic fantasy tale; Explain Snoke and/or the philosophy of the First Order. Really, actually dive into the history of the Jedi/Sith instead of just having Luke make a Reddit post about how the prequels suck. Have him actually bond with Rey at some point in the film. Rey Nobody was just one disappointing moment in the never-ending ocean of anti-climax that was TLJ.

Also, if you want the "anybody can be powerful" message, actually commit to it. Baiting the audience by promising a trooper-turned-Jedi, only to completely dump that character doesn't seem to fit that inclusive vision of the Force.

 

they promised that?

 

yes, they did, they marketed Finn with a lightsaber before release

 

Thats not a promise.

The marketing promised The Rise of Skywalker was going to be the adventure of a lifetime and it was not.

 

[

Multiple times.










Then there was this official trailer for the Force Awakens where Finn is showing facing off against Kylo Ren while wielding a lightsaber.



That scene was also included in a promo interview with John Boyega.



He is also shown battling a stormtrooper using a lightsaber in this official TV Spot.



The only other two people presented with lightsabers in the promotional material are both force sensitive. It was a blatant bait-and-switch.

If anyone went into the Force Awakens, thinking that Finn was going to be force-sensitive based on the marketing campaign, that's 100% on the film's marketing because it definitely presented Finn as force-sensitive.

 

Nice marketing. Is Rey a ninja turtle in that version?

 

What?

 

Rey did throw her enemies into the screen. (Ninja Turtle SNES game reference.)

 

Imagine coming out of TFA and still thinking Finn is gonna be the Jedi.

 

She has Donatellos staff, yet no lightsabre. Gosh they lied to us Rey turned out to be the jedi!

 

THIS. My god just do something, ANYTHING. Rey didn't have to be a skywalker, but to just say "her parents were drunks! haw!" , was like "uh......ok.".

"Her parents were force cultists who dumped rey on jakku to prevent the first order from stealing her", "Her parents were sith acolytes that decided to protect their daughter from going down the same dark and torturous path they went.", "her parents were ascendancy spies that were killed by new republic operatives",etc. They could've done anything but nothing. How could you write and direct star wars films while being seemingly uninterested in the world of star wars?

 

At least Finn held and fought with a lightsaber in the movie. I don't think Kylo was ever a villain that had much going for him, even as a character. But I've seen pushes for him to have been the villain of TROS.

Why should bloodline be a reason, when those aren't supposed to matter?

 

I’m sorry I don’t follow your comment


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C3-PO was marketed as a sith for TROS. Same difference really.
My memories may deceive me about Rogue One but there we had a force sensitive who was never a jedi. Anyone can wield a lightsaber or a gun but that doesn't make them a jedi or a storm trooper or a smuggler.

Hence I never even considered that Finn will become a jedi just because of using a lightsaber and I actually felt it was quite forced that they made him into a force-sensitive. That's my take on it anyways. I didn't have those expectations.

When we found out right at the beginning that Kylo was a Skywalker, I was quite happy that we may have a Skywalker villain but what with Disney being at the helm, there my expectation was that he does turn back to the light side by the end. I was kinda holding out to the end but hey.

 

that is just it...people see something taken out of context and interpret it the way it makes sense to them or the way they want it to happen and when one way's expectations don't meet the reality they get disappointed/angry blaming big bad Disney and JJ for manipulating them when really one should self reflect and acknowledge it was their choice to buy in to their expectation. Ultimately, it is impossible to satisfy everybody.

or...and this is quite probable...
it is ALL Kylo's fault like everything really



@ChildOfWinds
I am sorry that you feel that way about star wars now. I understand the feeling of hurt, because I think everyone on these boards had their hopes crushed about at least one part of the story (throughout all 9 movies) that meant something to them. For me it is the killing off the last Skywalker. But not much we can do than to accept it? And try not to make others who liked what we disliked feel bad about themselves for liking it.

Personally I was never much interested in Leia's character prior to TROS, probably because she was always depicted as just a passive Force user. In the OT I thought she was represented as a stereotype that didn't sit with me well and of course lacked Han's charms for me to consider her likeable. In the ST they could have done so much more with that character, but for some reason they didn't and they made such a disservice to her. But I don't think that is solely the responsibility of the writers, there is also a lot that depends on the actor's capabilities. Carrie looked much more engaged in TFA, while in TLJ it seemed she even had trouble walking (that walking stick she used did not look like a prop to me) and her facial expressions and talking seemed blunt somehow. So maybe it was not possible to engage her into more scenes? Because I do agree with you it was a total miss that we didn't get to see any of the scenes of Kylo and Leia together, after that intro mental contact they have when Kylo chooses to not bomb her. But you gotta ask yourself another legitimate question, if she went to confront Kylo, what would be Luke's purpose in TLJ and what would be the story of 9?

 

In a way, one could say that Kylo Ren’s fall was caused by a dark spell cast on him long ago by the Emperor. Through years of manipulation, the Emperor had twisted Ben Solo into his ultimate tool for revenge. Even revealing himself and his influence to Ren did not break the spell, for it is natural that a Sith should want to betray his master.

And yet the spell did break in Rise of Skywalker, and I’m still unclear as to why. It was Leia and Rey’s joint influence, but what exactly happened at the Death Star ruins? Leia’s spirit seems to have bonded with Kylo then, because she did not fully disappear into the Force until he died later on. And Rey’s actions, dealing a killing blow and the healing it, don’t seem to be the key to his turn. So was Rey mainly a messenger in some way, allowing Leia to perform through her whatever it was that finally broke off the Emperor’s influence on Ren?

 

Yeah, my bad. I misremembered a promo featuring Finn, Rey and Kylo Ren.

This line "The only other two people presented with lightsabers in the promotional material are both force sensitive." was incorrect.

Point still stands: the Force Awakens marketing constantly showed Finn with a lightsaber in the promotional material including in one of the official trailers where he was facing off against the movie's villain in a lightsaber duel. It was clearly selling the impression that he was force-sensitive.

 

I mean, that's probably a result of...you know...bad writing.

See, this is what I mean. Leia's the one dictating his actions and thoughts, not him? She's not really gone, I guess, because of his death somehow? Rey was a messenger for Leia's sake? I don't get how a protagonist being a mere baton between Leia and Kylo is really that emotionally resonant. It isn't for me.

Imagine watching the way Finn turned out by the end of the trilogy and being upset with people who think that would have been better.

 

Marketing. Simple as that.

That conspiracy theory around the Chinese marketing and Finn is also just conspiracy. In the Chinese poster Finn is leveled against Phasma, who is his major challenger in the film. The xwings are balanced against the Tie fighters. etc etc etc.

 

Yes, the marketing campaign sold the impression that Finn was force-sensitive. The marketing is 100% to blame if people thought that he was going to be force-sensitive based on how his character was marketed.

Are you referring to the poster controversy where people pointed out that the Chinese version shrunk Finn and it understandably earned accusations of racism because the only character it happened to was the only non-white character visible on the poster?



If not, then I don't know what you're talking about. This was also the only Chinese poster that I could find.

 

Maybe a combination of all those bits, starting with Han's acceptance and forgiveness, continued with Leia's made the Palpatine's dark spell break because Kylo/Ben felt (and believed) like he belongs with them now and not in the Dark with Snoke/Palps? Kylo, I think seeks belonging and acceptance and that made him vulnerable to manipulation...or spells.

I agree with you that Rey's actions are probably not pivotal in his turn. She may have been the object of his desire and he would go at lengths to get her, but she never really exhibited unconditional love/caring for him, like his parents. She would only accept him if he turns. So in my book that kind of love/caring can not be all that mighty or powerfull or worthy enough to have pivotal effects...
One thing I read while back and it made (some) sense was that when she healed him she did not only heal his physical scars she gave him, but also through their bond enabled the Force to heal a part of his mind that was infected with the dark...So a vessel of his redemption? I dunno...I am curious to see if there will be an explanation for Leia's delayed dissappearance.

A side note 1, as I was writing this up, I noticed that Rey healing Kylo scene somewhat mirrors the Rey healing Snake scene. Maybe I'm seeing too much into it, but I wonder it is just a coincidence that the creature was a snake and not for example desert scorpio or some Pasana endemic species given that she at one point considered and called Kylo a murderous snake.
Continuing my reflections on Rey force healing Kylo, how come Rey didnt die after she healed his
fatal wound...or at least faint? She walks it off (runs it off to be exact), while he dies after doing the same?

A side note 2, I thought it was clearly stated after TFA that Kylo was not a Sith but a Darkside warior?

And a bonus discussion point (lol):
When Palpatine sucked on the life Force of their dyad bond did he suck it dry or it was still there after he regenerated? Because if the dyad is still there then no one is ever really gone could mean something extra for Kylo...

 

I really can't believe there are people still acting like this never happened. I guess i shouldn't be the least bit surprised.