CT Did it matter at all?

And if they do have a second thought it should almost certainly be "Man, that Greedo dude is a horrible shot! Why would a bad-ass gangster such as Jabba the Hutt have such an incompetent on the books?"

 

I think it absolutely matters, especially when you look at the reason behind the change. The sole intent of the change was to change the perception of Han's character. Done to change how people look at Han. That's a big thing to modify. Think of it this way. If someone starts telling a story about you that makes people around you change their perception of you from a nice person to an absolute jerk, would it not matter?

 

Can't wait for the 2022 rerelease, where Greedo has been replaced by Boba Fett and shouts MACKLUNKY as he fires his rocket at Han at point blank range and misses spectacularly

Han then manages to make his blaster shot bounce off everything in the Cantina before it hits Boba's jetpack and he flies through the ceiling

 

The intent was that, yes. In the end, did it really succeed in doing so though? I don't think so. We're discussing whether or not it had a significant impact on the story, not whether or not it was a good idea to change.

 

I thought Greedo was a low level bounty hunter that accidentally saw Han in the Cantina and tried to kill him but failed horribly at that.

In both versions he really is incompetent since he can't realize that Han is drawing his blaster under the table and is aiming him.

Also, why do you think Greedo needed to be completely competent ? Probably Jabba saw some potential in him and decided to hire him. After all not every good bounty hunter is competent from the beginning.

 

It's also possible he tasked a bunch of bounty hunters to go after Han, Greedo being one of them even though he didn't think much of him, and he just happened to find him first.

 

In the novelization at least, there's more lines in the Jabba scene than even the special edition, and Jabba complains that Greedo was never sent to kill Han in the first place, just to "relay Jabba's concerns":

The docking-bay entrance to the small saucer-shaped spacecraft was completely ringed by half a dozen men and aliens, of which the former were by half the most grotesque. A great mobile tub of muscle and suet topped by a shaggy scarred skull surveyed the semicircle of armed assassins with satisfaction. Moving forward from the center of the crescent, he shouted toward the ship. "Come on out, Solo! We've got you surrounded."
"If so, you're facing the wrong way," came a calm voice.
Jabba the Hut jumped—in itself a remarkable sight. His lackeys likewise whirled—to see Han Solo and Chewbacca standing behind them. "You see, I've been waiting for you, Jabba."
"I expected you would be," the Hut admitted, at once pleased and alarmed by the fact that neither Solo nor the big Wookie appeared to be armed.
"I'm not the type to run," Solo said.
"Run? Run from what?" Jabba countered. The absence of visible weapons bothered Jabba more than he cared to admit to himself. There was something peculiar here, and it would be better to make no hasty moves until he discovered what was amiss.
"Han, my boy, there are times when you disappoint me. I merely wish to know why you haven't paid me… as you should have long ago. And why did you have to fry poor Greedo like that? After all you and I have been through together."
Solo grinned tightly. "Shove it, Jabba. There isn't enough sentiment in your body to warm an orphaned bacterium. As for Greedo, you sent him to kill me."
"Why, Han," Jabba protested in surprise, "why would I do that? You're the best smuggler in the business. You're too valuable to fry. Greedo was only relaying my natural concern at your delays. He wasn't going to kill you."
"I think he thought he was. Next time don't send one of those hired twerps. If you've got something to say, come see me yourself."


Still, the whole "we've got you surrounded" might cast a certain amount of doubt on that.

 

Yes, I do comprehend the topic. I made the point in that it is an attempt, regardless of success, to change the perception of a character. Within that context, as I stated in my post, it absolutely matters.

 

There are three reasons why I think this was a mistake and not very good.

1) The first time the effect looked quite poor.

2) As others have mentioned, it tires to alter Han as a character. That he is John Wayne and thus never shoots first, he lets the other person have the first shot. This makes no sense as Han shoots first other times in the film, so it is inconsistent.
Also if Han is already this noble and good, where is his change of heart and coming back to help in the end?
Such a noble person would do such a thing without needing to think about it.
Plus, letting a guy that has a gun aimed at you and is about two feet away and still letting them have the first shot.
That is less noble and more suicidal and quite stupid.

3) The excuses. When there was push-back to this, Lucas tries to argue that Greedo was always meant to first first.
That they tries to film it with Greedo shooting first but due to technical problems, they never got the shot to work.
This to me sounds like spinn, like saying "No, I am not changing the film, I am restoring it to what it was supposed to be."
Plus other people that worked on ANH disagree with this claim and the script does not mention Greedo shooting first or at all.

Now the effects is less bad and they shoot at the same time.
So why bother?
Han is not letting Greedo have the first shot, he would have killed Greedo regardless.
So why add "lousy shot" to Greedo being stupid and overconfident?

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

It's part of Han's arc. He's basically a criminal in ANH and his still a borderline criminal in ESB. It's not until ROTJ that he transforms into a hero completely.

 

Only to later entirely undo his arc and return to his former ways as an elderly man. Way to go Han ol buddy.

 

We all know Han shot first. Regardless of whatever digital jiggery pokery they vomit up onto that scene they can’t redact the truth.

Han shot first. I know it, you know it, and deep down old Georgie knows it. But to be fair, in the grand scheme of things, love, life, mortgages, death...nah it don’t matter.

 

Considering that Han was willing to sit by and allow Leia to be executed aboard the Death Star, instead of helping Luke rescue her . . . I see no reason to get worked up over whether he shot Greedo first before the latter could shoot him. Frankly, I've never understood this hullabaloo over whether Han shot first. I've always found it rather shallow.

 

Wow. Is the "Han shot first" thing really still a debate?

 

Does it matter for that one little scene? No.

Does it matter overall? Yes. It's just another example of why directors, as they get older, need to leave their art alone. Lucas was in a completely different head space in the nineties than he was in the seventies. Is it his movie? Yes. Does that give him the right to ruin it? ...?

 

Your could ask Lucas that. He was the one who spent time and money to alter the scene, more than once even.
It was Lucas that felt that Han shooting first was unacceptable for Han as he is a John Wayne type character.
As you say, Han is shown as not all that noble in the film so why he suddenly and for no reason is super noble with Greedo makes no sense.

Had Lucas left the scene alone, there would be no debate about it.
But he didn't and on top of that, the OOT still has not had a proper release on DVD or Bluray.

So Lucas has mostly himself to blame here.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Theatrical versions did get released on DVD, in 2006.

 

It didnt impact much because we all know how Han started his journey and how his character was at the beginning. He stayed that way through much of ANH and into TESB. He didnt "arc" until the end of ROTJ. Now, a person that has never seen SW at all might get the impression that Han was a selfless, nice guy because he didnt shoot first but I doubt it. Within a little movie time they'd see he was sort of a selfish jerk. So, although the change was stupid it didnt hurt much, IMO.

 

Is your argument that han does not change during ANH or ESB? If so then I disagree.
Han starts out a quite self-centered. He cares about himself and will only act if he benefits from it.
He only agreed to try and save Leia because Luke made promises of a big reward. And once he got it, he left.
But then he changed his mind and came back to help. Even if it was at a risk to himself and no direct gain in terms of money.
He then stayed with the rebels for three years but decided to leave and pay Jabba back because of the risk to his life. But outside events got in the way and he was not about to just leave and not look back.
Han came to check on Leia because he had heard the command-centre had been hit even though he had been given the ok to leave. He took her along when there was no way to get her to the transport.

So Han does change during these two films, he starts to value other people and will help them even if there is no reward. He has not fully transformed yet but a change has happened.

And it was Lucas goal to show than Han was a total nice guy from the get go, hence why he talked about Han being a John Wayne character and as such, he must never shoot first. Han was supposed to get the Princess at the end and thus he must be shown as a noble guy from the start. According to Lucas.

Yeah the change does not do much to show this but again this makes it pointless and does not fit how the character otherwise acts for most of the film.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

In the grand scheme of things, you're right it generally did not change anyone's perception. And yes, the change was stupid. Painfully stupid and poorly executed.
That said, my point was in the context of why the change was made. Not whether it was successful. What is the motive behind the change? As I said in my initial post, this is about attempting to influence the perception of someone's character.

 

I always thought Lucas made the change because Han was now a hero and he didn't want Han to be a cold blooded killer in ANH. I don't agree; I think Han was shady in ANH but he acted in self defense.

 

My bad - when I said "started that way in ANH and into TESB" I meant that about halfway through TESB his love for Leia started to take over. Yes, at the end of ANH he does come back for one of my fav scenes when he wrecks Vaders tie-fighter trio in the trench and opens things up for Luke to blow up the Death Star. But that was one moment at the end of the film. Right up until that he was mostly a dick.

Remember, he was prepared to leave again at the beginning of TESB(Hoth base) to take care of his own business(pay off Jabba, who knows what else) until the attack happened & he couldnt get Leia to her transport. So to me he really almost completely changes towards the middle/end of ROTJ.

 

To add to the discussion a while ago about the change making Greedo look like an idiot, I actually kinda enjoy that it does. People want Greedo to be a generic cool guy bounty hunter, but that role is already fulfilled by, I don’t know, literally every other bounty hunter in the entire franchise. It’s fun to have him be just a complete fool, IMO.

 

If Greedo did not have the common (bounty hunter) sense to at least order Han while under blaster point to keep his hands where he could see them (much less, I dunno, disarm Han??) then he deserved to get shot first.