Gaming In a grim dark far future there is only war - A thread for Warhammer 40k

And their attempts to suppress it completely - to go ultra-emotionless - went horribly wrong, thanks to a daemon called the Sapphire King (I think, created with Manus's death).

Hence the current IH leader, Kardan Stronos making it crystal clear that they can't safely "go completely emotionless, machine-style" - that they need to hang onto their humanity, and use their rage, rather than try to eliminate it entirely.

 

Somewhat better I guess. I mean I still don´t see anything intresting related to this concept but sure. Even better make it a Celtic Ten, with their Clans cold climate the IH have some Scottish/Irish Feel as well.

I would rather go with what the Imperium claims they did and let the player decided how much of it is true.

It is said that the at least the Ultramarines where considerably larger than any other legion, they where like 5 times the size of the Word Bearers(before the betrayal of Calth), and even people IU speculate that it might have been because of absorbing the Lost Legions. Similiar to that the Fists who are also one of the larger Legions. Keep in mind even after destroying three full Legions in the drop side massacre the Traitors still are outgunned and outnumbered in the long run and need to rush for Terra. So its heavily suggested that at least the Ultramarines and probably the Fists as well got a serious boost to their numbers by the lost legions. Also for the Fists the Soul Drinkers are vaguley confirmed to be from Lost Legion Geenstock, as the Apothecary who revealed that it isn´t Dorn apparently had trouble finding out what it was actually from. Given that the SD are a second founding chapter there must have been a sizable number of LL members in the Fists after the war.

Considering they recuit from a sparsley populated world I´m not sure if they can actually keep up 1000 Marines at all times.

Also can we please stop splitting hairs on admirals/captains and governors?

Well to me its the oppositte, giving those possibilities often leads to them being seen more as limitations in the sense of "it should be one of the examples presented here".

Okay if that´s all so easy then why did the Emperor needed the Mechanicum in the first place? Why did the greatest Atheist who ever existed who sought to erradicate all religion, who comitted at least one genocide to proove that point, allow the Mechanicum to retain their religion? Why did he who never engadged in diplomacy beyond a "surrender or I will destroy you" felt the need to butter up to Mars and allow them various concessions? Why does the modern day Imperium who destroy worlds on the slightest drop of a hat allow the Mechanicus similiar pirviledges? How was the Mechanicus the Imperial inistution affected the least by Guillimans purge? If apparently just some random tech marines can gain the skills of veteran tech priests just out of the blue?

Keep in mind this whole discussion is just about an instance of Re rolls for non directly Mechanicus affiliated chapters to have these things. And as I said before the re rolls are less outright bans and more attempts to make the results a bit more realistic IU. If you don´t mind that and want a crazy chapter than just ignore the re rolls.

Well they complained about Inquisitorial actions who are allowed and sanctioned by Imperial law. I think you are moving goalposts by comparing Dorn being concerned about corruption within the empire with the CL being upset over the, by imperial law, nessesary destruction of tainted worlds.

The book makes it clear its a matter of principle, if he had succeded and ended the war right then and there he would have still been punished the same.

Its more a grim resolve rather than pride, in fact the colours are based on the Teutonic Order whos members specifically took the simple white and black garb to humble themselves and leave their colourfull noble heraldires behind.

In that if the orders are good own initaive will allign with them, and cause all of their members are reasonably competend in therms of leadership it seems.

Or maybe they are former Warhounds who keep a champion as a reminder of their gladitorial roots. But again I wouldn´t put too much stock into one describtion of one item in a game made by a company who don´t know the difference between Honor Guard and First Company.

How about this, you actually give us a few example that make the Iron Thenth unique?

Yeah but the greek heros only in a more distant way, keep in mind the Romans saw themselves as the succesors of the Trojans and even considered their later conquest of greece as divine justice so to say.

Thing is Burning, Bronze Bulls are far closer to Khonre or even the Salamanders legion than the Iron Hands.

I guess...

Well the IW homeworld is called Olympia, and was covered by City states. Perturabos adoptive father was called Damocles and he was a tyrant, the Legion itself has some spartanist ideals, Perturabo has something of a classical philosopher. Their legion is still pretty divided but has a similar aristocratic arrogance to them like the ancient greeks had, for example their racism and looking down on "Half Breeds".

For the IH the only real thing refering to Greec clear to me is their leader being called "the Gorgon" and even than FM has nothing to do with Greek Gorgons.

GW can be suprisingly deep and serious once you pierce the surface.

But they supress it, its as if you say the Vulcans in ST stand for anger and rage.

But even then its a controlled agression, now bull headedness.

 

Well, glued together New ones after doing some touch ups on the models i worked on last Friday and varnishing my minis with 'ardcoat to protect them.

This week project.

Company Master Lazarus of the 5th company. Dark angels call their Captains, Company Masters or in the case of the Deathwing and Ravenwing ,Grand Masters. The Chapter Master(currently Azrael) is called Supreme Grand Master. Lazarus is a former Firstborn who crossed the Rubicon and became a Primaris(similar to the Ultramarines Marneus Calgar and Kor'sarro Khan of the White Scar) and first Primaris marine in the inner circle.later novel War of Secrets adds several members of a Primaris squad are going to be inducted either into the raven wing or death wing at the end. Lazarus is widely speculated to be an eventual Supreme Grandmaster one day as he was the main character for 8th Edition's psychic awakening :Ritual of the Damned campaign and even got the cover of the campaign rulebook for the DA, Thousand Sons and Grey Knights. He and his Lt. Zaccariah are the first two named DA Primaris marine characters.

A Primaris Vanguard Librarians, this kit is perfect for Dark Angels because it already has a hood and robe.

Interrogator Chaplain(firstborn) because you cannot have a DA army set in the 40k era without someone to make Fallen Repent. Honestly one of the best Dark Angels specific models GW has ever created.

Asmodai and Azrael should arrive via FedEx Thursday or Friday. Got these more for display purposes because Asmodai Is one of the most memeable 40k characters.but may play them too. Azrael also comes with a watcher in the Dark holding the Lion Helm.

This is going to be a fun few days of painting. Will post pics either Saturday before Yom Kippur or Monday night after.

 

Sharing this because I find it fun:

Undercover Nurglings

Klaxons blared.

"Sector Five containment down--"

"Security breach in Third Quadrant--"

"Core cogitator shutting down, someone's rewired the--"

"Explosions in barracks Alpha--"

Magos Trismegistus span around, breath rasping from his augmentic lungs. +++How is this possible?+++ he demanded. The officers and skitarii around his looked panicked. +++This is supposed to be a secure installation!+++

The Magos span back to try and get a handle on the constant flow of catastrophic data from all areas. For a moment he paused - one of the skitarii had been shaking. Was it... laughing? He shook his head and tried to focus on the hellscape his life had suddenly become.





This is one of those idle thoughts prompted by having some leftover bits. What would happen if....? In this case, what would happen if some nurglings found a way to pilot a skitarii round like a suit? The answer: something magical.





From a construction point of view, the coat had to be split open and be widened. I did this with plastic putty. I then had to trim off some the bits of the nurglings to make sure they fit - and end of a horn here, a pointy elbow there. Then a pole for them to operate the gun and we were all set.






I painted them the same as my existing Skitarii to allow for maximum infiltration fun. I imagine I can play these as a poxwalker in a nurgle kill team or as a skitarii in an admech kill team just for fun.

 

That had some really nice weathering effects on the robes

 

Guess what I just cracked open...

 

Not mine which isn't painted yet but here is something close to.what i want the Librarian to look like.



Slighly different though as the breathmask/vox will be in Dark Green and maybe the leather vest under the robe will be green to make look more DA.

(Its always fun to paint the specialists roles because they each have different color schemes than the main army with the chapter colors for the highlight techmarines in red, Librarians in blue, Chaplains in black, and Apothecaries im white)

 

Something you could do with your 40k Dark Angels is to have them as a joint Unforgiven force with representative from different Unforgiven Chapters, and if you want could some of the successor Chapters have a different colour scheme for their specialist roles than the Codex standard (the Emperor’s Spears e.g. had all their specialist roles being black armoured). But then again you don’t even need to have them using different colour scheme for their specialist roles with some Chapters if they are wearing robes since some of the DA successors have notably different robes’ colours*.
* This actually gives me an idea of a DA successor whose monastic tradition is based on the Buddhist one and has saffron coloured robes.


EDIT:
Also have you given the Warhammer Podcast interveiw with Adam Troke? There is som DA talk in it

 

Yeah, I listened to it the other day while building my models..

 

Well. Had an issue with the Coral white primer. SO tommorrow will pick up some simple green to strip the paint off the minis Using the method a war hammer youtuber I trust, Luetin has a how to video for.

Since I am going to up all night I washed and scrubed the bits for my 30k dark angels as there resin models and you need to soak them for a fee minutes in soapy water, then scrub them with a toothbrush and let them dry before glueing in order get rid of the release agent on the resin..

So I will be painting these models this weekend.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JjrF1WAxvtuoaTteA

Link to pictures of heresy era DA army on my work bench.

The terminators are WIP.

 

from https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/28/a-new-chapter-of-codex-space-marines/

"A New Chapter of Codex: Space Marines




The biggest and best-ever edition of Codex: Space Marines is up for pre-order this weekend, and over the coming days, we’ll be taking a peek inside its covers to showcase some of its most exciting features. Today, we’re looking at the Chapter Tactics for the First Founding Chapters and their most famed successors, and how you can even choose your own Successor Tactics using the new book.



First and Foremost
For the first time, the new codex includes Chapter Tactics for all nine loyalist First Founding Chapters, as well as the Deathwatch and those successors whose renown almost rivals that of their parent Chapter:



Even though the names may be familiar to many of you, some of the Chapter Tactics have undergone subtle changes that really help to hit home the character, attitude and fighting methods of the Chapter. Take the Space Wolves, for example, whose hunger for glory and ferocity on the counter-attack are legend. The new Chapter Tactic means that now it’s not just their Characters who can make Heroic Interventions, but ALL of their eligible units!



Meanwhile, the Blood Angels are notorious for their barely-controlled bloodlust, but it’s not just about their killing fury when in combat – they’re also chomping at the bit to get there in the first place!



The Dark Angels may be a secretive bunch, but one thing they never hide is their stoic determination in battle and martial prowess when their feet are planted.



Pick ‘n’ Mix


That’s not all – if you’ve created your own Space Marines Chapter, you’ll be pleased to know the new codex includes full rules for creating your own Successor Tactics, too. All you need to do is pick the two Successor Tactics that best identify the character or play style you have in mind from those listed, and boom – instant Chapter Tactics! Here are a few examples:

If you like purging heretics from afar, try this combo…





…Or if you prefer a more ‘hands-on’ approach…





With 19 Successor Tactics to choose from, you’ll be able to pick the perfect combination to suit your needs!





The amazing new codex is up for pre-order THIS SATURDAY, so you don’t have long to wait. Which Chapter will you be unleashing upon the Emperor’s enemies when you get your copy? Are you going old school with one of the First Founding Chapters or taking a different approach with either the Deathwatch or a successor Chapter of your own creation? Let us know on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page and using #PaintingWarhammer on Twitter."

 

original art from https://www.artstation.com/artwork/aY0RBk

 

Here:

THE IRON TENTH
The Iron Tenth is a Third Founding chapter created from Iron Hands stock, whose original high command was all ancient veterans from before the fall of the Emperor with three of them (including the Chapter-Master Xenofon DuPree) being part of the Legion from even before the finding of Ferrus Manus. Realising that the newly Chapter needed to differ themselves from their predecessor and make its own identity DuPree decided to forsake the Clan-Company structure of the Iron Hands and instead embrace the organization of the Codex Astartes, it was also decided that the newly created Chapter should take up some of the traditions of the Tenth Legion that had been laid by the side during Manus leadership. Gifted the Feral World of Megaera Secundus as a home and recruitment world the newly christened Iron Tenth Chapter begun to carve its own path.

Eight millennial later and the Iron Tenth have truly carved their own path, even if their gene-ancestry is obvious for all to see with their tendency to quickly replace flesh for cybernetics and distain for weakness. Compared to their precursor so are they less remorseless in their interaction their allies and more mindful of their cost, even if they are just as harsh in punishment as the Iron Hands if their allies show themselves not doing their duties, including following orders.


Colours
Their Chapter symbol diagonally divided from upper left to lower right, with the right side blue and the left side white, with an iron symbol in white on the blue side and an Attic 10 (a triangle) in black on the white side.

The upper torso armour, shoulder pads, arms and left gauntlet of their armour are black, the rest of their armour is dark iron-grey, beside Company markings. They follow the codex standard with their Company, rank and role markings, with the Company colours being shown on the left knee and on the pauldron trim. The unique role of Presveftis (see ‘Organization and tactics’) is marked by a blue helmets and a blue, vertical line on their backpack.


Organization and tactics
The Iron Tenth is a Codex chapter in organization and overall tactics, even if they have a larger motor pool than most other Chapter and the high amount of techmarines needed to service it.

While fully trained in all the ways of war that you can find in the Codex are their most favoured tactic is ‘the Hammer and the Storm’ that their precursor Legion developed during the Great Crusade. The tactic involves forcefully taking an area in enemy territory, and then go into defensive position around the area so the enemy has to come to them and when a large enough enemy force have gathered to retake the area the rest of the Chapter present swop in from the side or the sky with fast attacks and heavy artillery – more than ones have heavy artillery been placed in the defended area, called an ‘iron triangle’ by the Chapter, but not used in the defence until the enemy are in high enough numbers. The Iron Tenth have used this tactic both with their own forces as the bait but also other Imperial forces have had the honour to be trusted with this role. Mostly Astra Militarum Regiments, but only members from Regiments known for the iron discipline needed for it. It’s possible that this use of allied forces and the need to interact with them in ways that the sons of Manus find hard that has made the Chapter create the non-codex role of Presveftis: a battle-brother who is trained in interacting and understanding humans not gifted with the Emperor’s gene-seed, and whose implants are of a less obvious, or at least more pleasing, appearance.

The Chapter have been noted to have a focus with the number ten. They often do things in groups of ten, and seldom send squads with less than ten battle-brothers.


Enemies and allies
There is a light mistrust against the Chapter from the Mechanicus, which seem strange since the Iron Tenth is just as mechanized and following in the orthodoxies of the Mechanicum as their fellow sons of Manus. It is believed that this distrust comes from that the Chapter has many times worked together with the Ordo Machinum of the Inquisition in rooting out and fighting heretical behaviour in the Mechanicus and Magoses that greedy keep useful designs and technology for themselves instead of giving it to the rest of the Imperium. They have even helped apprehend a fabricator-general. While this distrust from Mars would make many Chapters lose the inflow of technology and wargear from the Forge Worlds that supply them as a thinly veiled punishment so have this not happened to the Iron Tenth, likely because the Chapter is nearly self-sufficient when it comes to manufacturing Astarte pattern wargear and standard STC:s. It’s also possible that something more heretical is happening with the nearby Mechanicus stations (most notable the station that hangs in the upper layers of the gas giant Megaera Quartus mining and refining the planets gases) being more loyal to the Chapter than to Mars. This distrust from the Mechanicus may be the reason why the Chapter seemingly have problem repairing their now ramshackle fleet.
* They have a history of working well with Imperial Forces that share their iron discipline – like the Mordian Iron Guard, the Death Korps of Krieg, the Teutons Regiment, and the Crimson Guard Venatorii of Lathe.
* Will not work with the Storm Wardens Chapter since the Tenth have found the Wardens willfulness and unwillingness to stay put when a challenge appeared made them unable to work together.
* They have a seemingly a preference to not work with Chapters that don’t have ten Companies - like the Space Wolves, Sons of Medusa, Salamanders, and Iron Snakes – if possible. But this idiosyncrasy don’t seems to prevent them from actually work with those Chapter if needed.

 

Interrogator Chaplain Work in Progress

 

B.t.w. I would like to know what people thought about this. You can be as critical as you want, I really want to know what I do good and what I do bad.

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for Necron fans:
from https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/29/ancient-dynasties-of-the-necrons/

"Ancient Dynasties of the Necrons




The Silent King officially returns this weekend, and he’s bringing the new Codex: Necrons with him. We snuck off with it when he wasn’t looking so that we could bring you more information on the Dynastic Codes – including how you can even build your own using the rules in the codex!



The Great Dynasties
The Necrons once ruled the stars, and did so through the strength of their dynasties. The new codex features the six dynasties that were foremost among them, and provides powerful abilities for each, called Dynastic Codes, that help to bring their nuances to life on the battlefield. Here’s a sneak peek at each one.



As the dynasty of the Silent King himself, the Szarekhan have swiftly risen to pre-eminence since the return of the ancestral ruler of the Necrons – even though some phaerons have sought to contest their meteoric rise. The Szarekhan Dynasty wield potent artefacts and weaponry dating back to the zenith of the Necron empire.



Choose this dynasty if… You’re looking to field the ancestral dynasty of the Silent King. Their resistance to mortal wounds makes them especially effective against psyker-heavy armies, while their handy re-rolls when shooting or fighting ensure your deadliest weapons will strike true.





The largest and most aggressively expansionist dynasty is that of the Sautekh. Ruled by the legendary phaeron Imotekh the Stormlord, the Sautekh have long been considered the greatest of the Necron dynasties – a status quo challenged only by the recent surge in power enjoyed by the Szarekhan in the wake of the Silent King’s return.



Choose this dynasty if… You prefer to annihilate your enemies at medium range. Their extended Rapid Fire range and near immunity to Morale tests makes for an incredibly reliable metal backbone of Necron Warriors and Immortals.



Once used by the Silent Kings of old as the executioners of worlds, the Mephrit Dynasty’s history is steeped in the blood of those who would dare oppose the might of the Necrons. To face the Mephrit in battle is to welcome annihilation at their hand.



Choose this dynasty if… You love close-ranged firepower but wish you didn’t have to get quite so… close! To that end, Necron Warriors equipped with the gauss reapers will prove especially devastating with the Mephrit’s improvements to both Range and Armour Penetration.



To witness the fury of the Novokh in battle is to see blood-soaked fury made manifest. Their methods are more akin to industrial slaughter than war. Once battle is joined, the Novokh cut down their foes with mechanical efficiency, carving through the enemy lines without mercy until naught but a charnel house of dismembered meat remains.



Choose this dynasty if… You want to tear your opponent to piec–… ahem, your opponent’s army to pieces in close combat rather than obliterating them from afar. Skorpekh Destroyers will certainly feel at home with the Novokh!





The Nephrekh bask in the light of their crownworld’s trinary stars, absorbing their solar energies with which to fuel the dynasty’s great works. Their phalanxes march to war in gilded bodies of living metagold – a dazzling sight to behold, but one which is soon cut short by deadly volleys of brilliant light.



Choose this dynasty if… You like the idea of a notoriously tough army being even tougher with a 6+ invulnerable save! And who doesn’t like the idea of instant translocation?



Upon awakening from the Great Sleep, the Nihilakh found much of their ancient territory had been plundered. Yet all was not lost, and the dynasty has since regained much of its former power, aided immeasurably by prescience gleaned from the preserved head of the Yth Seer. The Nihilakh remain on the warpath, and will not rest until their fallen realm is fully restored.





Choose this dynasty if… You’re looking for a significant edge in matched play with widespread access to Objective Secured.

Birth of a New Dynasty
One of the many cool features of the new codex is that it includes rules for creating your own Dynastic Code, so if you’ve been painting up your gleaming phalanx in your own colour scheme, you can support it with bespoke rules too! All you need to do is pick one option from the available Dynastic Traditions and one from the Circumstances of Awakening list to form your own hybrid Dynastic Code. Here’s an example to whet your appetite.



Warhammer Community’s Rhu has been building his own Necron force, dubbing his warriors the Khuenaten Dynasty.



Dynastic Tradition: Immovable Phalanx


Circumstances of Awakening: Interplanetary Invaders


Codex: Necrons is up for pre-order on Saturday, but we’ve still got plenty more to show off before then, so remember to check back with us each day on warhammer-community.com and sign up to our newsletter for all the latest news. Meanwhile, let us know which dynasty you serve on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page. "

 

Adding:
Lords/Conquers of Rust [= from Planet 02-34, cognomen ‘Rust’, first out of Sol-system notable victory for the IH] – likely has Planet 02-34 as their homeworld. Colours are possibly rust red, or they have treated their armour so scarifications of non-damaging rust marks it, or they blow rust dust on their armour.
Rust Lords / Takers [= see Lords/Conquers of Rust] see Lords/Conquers of Rust.
Pegasus [= the mythological Pegasus was created from Medusa’s blood dropping into the sea, should be created from either Iron Hands (homeworld Medusa) or the Sons of Medusa] fitting with their Chapter-symbol so should they have many flyer units, and possibly lots of biker units (call back to horse cavalry). Maybe a Second Founding Chapter that took most/all of the IH jet-bikes?
Eye of Vigilance [= from The Seal of the Eye of Vigilance, an award bestowed by the Warmaster Horus upon the Iron Hands who served beside him in battle and were held in high regard] – possibly specialise in hunting/fighting Black Legion
Keys of Hel [= from the Keys of Hel] – possibly specialise in hunting/fighting enemies using technology prescribed as nightmare science, and then gathering up all the tech to keep it hidden and locked away. Alternative, they are the keepers of the IH Legions Keys of Hel-tech and use it against the most dangerous foes. Or both. As a reference to the goddess Hel could the colour scheme be split left/right.
Key Keepers [= reference to The Keys of Hel] – see the Keys of Hel.
Morlocks [= after the cognomen of the IH’s veteran elite] should have a subterranean homeworld/fortress; are they albinos? If yes, is it because of their recruitment stock or something with their gene-seed?; their armour should probably be in pale colours.

Adding:
- Classic IH colours but instead of white a metal colour is used.
- Reversal of the classic II = white as the main colour with black for highlights/spot colours.


I would love to hear what people think


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As originally presented was it just a name, a suggestion about their symbol and nothing more.

Have to admit that I can’t really see the Celtic thing. To me the climate or overall environment on Medusa is not making me think of Scotland/Ireland, and clan structures can be found all over the world so that’s just not something that make me think of those areas specifically.

Sorry, I was not clear what I meant. From my perspective "courting with Chaos" (which I think I would call “Warp-dabbling”) don’t need to mean that have any mutations, just that they have used non-sanctioned Warp-technology* (unlike the Warp drive which is sanctioned); followed a similar path to what the Relictors did; used Warp Guides to do travel the Warp because Navigators was not available**; used Warp-sorcery for any a reason***; and such. What's really important is that the "Warp-dabbling" is something they, or at least the leadership, have consciously done: they decided to go down that path. Mutations on the other hand, could be because of something they did**** but more likely because of something out of their controls*****.
So the story beats is different: if you rolled "Warp-dabbling" would it mean that your Chapter has their own acts to blame and would possibly not have any mutations (yet)******; While if you rolled Mutation so would the declaration of Excommunicate Traitoris be not because of anything they did or had control over, and at least a notable number of them (if not all) have some kind of mutation that goes beyond the acceptable.

* e.g. could be Dark Age of Technology stuff; xeno-tech; heretech creations; things the techmarine and Librerian created together to save the Chapter; etcetera
** e.g. the Navigators had died or abounded them; as a way to not relay on Navigators; etcetera
*** e.g. to beat enemies of the Imperium; to save their own skin; to get secrets/knowledge that helped them fixing their gene-seed mutation; etcetera
**** like manipulation of their own gene-seed.
***** other manipulated their gene-seed; some fault in their implant methods that has accumulated through out the generations; undiscovered problems in their recruitment stocks' genes; to much radiation; Warp exposure; problem with the technology they use to grow the implants; retroviruses; after effects of xeno-weaponry; undiscovered effects from their homeworld's foodstuff; etcetera.
****** and possibly have some knowledge in Warp sorcery; have Warp-tech or daemon-weapons; or similar.

Absolutely. If you want do drop a topic just say the words.

Okey.

Sorry I did not mean to imply that it was easy, just that the Space Marines have some really good tech and often understanding that would make it possible for them. Most other non AdMech groups would not have that capability.

Because they had an unparalleled capability of mass production, was already spread far and wide (most of the Forge Worlds discovered by the Crusade was still loyal to Mars ones contact was made possible) and had some highly advanced technology (e.g. titans). I’m not saying that the AdMechs don’t have highly advanced, state of the art stuff just that most of the Skitarii tech don’t seem so much more advanced than the technology already used and maintained by the Space Marines, especially if the SM begin to do (semi)-heretechial stuff like jury-rigging, inventing, and building things not based on any STC or sanctioned blueprint.

I fully keep that in mind. I was personally thinking to suggest that when people roll on my D888 table do they roll eight times and just keep the results they think fits.

Did I give the impression I was talking about Dorn being concerned about corruption within the Imperium? Sorry if I did since that's not what I meant, I was only thinking about his complains about the others way of making war/taking out the enemy.

Yes but that has nothing to do with him pridefully ignoring an very important order and it was the point I was making about Dorn's kin having pride.

Also, I have not read the shortstory Irixa where the Venom Thorns Chapter appear but based on the description of them do it feel like they also are a good example of Dorn's decedents being prideful.

I was actually thinking that the Khalkotauroi would also be fitting as the name/theme for a Salamander successor since the Khalkotauroi were created by Vulcan (god) and was breathing fire.

True but also surprisingly tongue in the cheek many times, and they do love word plays.

ST?

 

Well its what people generally consider them as given their "Clans, gruff demeanor, undeniable backbone, expertise in technology, and tendency to lose despite their badassery. In fact, the 8.5 Supplement mentions the first stock of the X Legion hailing from the region known as Old Albia". I rather see little to no greek elements beyond the title of Gorgon and the world Medusa.

Well I just feel that any exposure to chaos will lead to mutations, I just don´t think a chapter could do any of the things you bring up here for any extended period of time without developing mutations.

But most of that tech is very specific, knowing it in and out is one thing, knowing a completly different side of tech just as well because of that is something completly different. Again its as if you ask someone who is very skilled at repairing cars to repair a plane.

Well they are, again just look at the models and video games, Servitors move in lockstep clunky, uncontrolled. Skitarri move ith faster than human reflexes, they are much more complex. SM implants are designed for the Marines specifically, and largley independent from the Mechanicum anyway so there is little in common. And for the millionth time, I´m not saying a chapter realted to the Mechanicus couldn´t bridge that gap but don´t see how some normal chapter without much tech knolwledge could.

If you make it that open for the player to decided why create a table in the first place?

No you did not. Its just how I intepred Dorns problems that he tought the imperium was too lax on its laws, not too strict as you tried to say.

It wasn´t pride, it was a rational descision, he either didn´t know powershields where a thing or didn´t think an Ork could use one, something that is actually in character for the Imperium(in fact the Ork codex includes refernces to the everyone underestimating the extend of Ork tech all the time). If he had succeded, and there was nothing to suggest he wouldn´t, the war would have been over. And even if it was pride its just another prove Dorns kind doesn´t approve of having pride.

I´m not sure if two lines on some extremly obscure succesor, written by Ben Counter(who was apparently forced to reveal the SD as not Dornian because they had little in common with Dorns sons) gives us any clear evidence.

I mean that would make more sense than them being IH related.

Sure but usually its a silly concept played dead serious.

Star Trek

 

Based on the Relictors do it seem possible, and mutations becouse of Warp-dabbling seems to not really follow a pattern some people quickly mutate while others seems unaffected for ages. And based on the Night Lords in Red Tithe (and their own books) do seem that you can hang around Chaos Sorceress and be in the Eye of Terror for some time and most of them have not been mutated or gifted by the gods. So if a Chapter have only been doing it for a shorter time is it likely that they have not developed any mutations (or at lest notable ones, some Chaos mutations/gifts are after all psychological or mystical).

What about we just agree to disagree on this question since we seem to think about it in notably different ways?

As inspiration
- for when you only have a name or colour for your Chapter you roll on it a couple of times, possibly together with another Chapter creating system and combine the combinable results.
- or you have an idéa, lets say I have just seen some samurai movies and want to make a Chapter based on samurais but don't want it to just be samurais-in-space since I have heard that GW thinks that a Chapter should not be just [culture/warrior-group] as Astartes, you use it to make it a bit different from the original concept.*
- as a supplement to other Chapter creating system to make the one you created a bit more quirky.
- for when you want to use a canon Chapter that have little written about them and want to ad stuff.

* It's now a samurai inspired Chapter that [rolls D888 four times]:
626. The Chapter have several times been charged by the Lords of Terra with hunting down and destroying renegade Imperial Guard Regiments.
676. Deep within their fortress-monastery the Chapter secretly keep, what they believe to be a group of Thunder Warriors, in stasis caskets.
251. A Chapter that officially fully follow the Codex Astartes but are actually much larger, something they hide with double-entry bookkeeping.
188. A Chapter that cover their armour and the skin of its battle-brothers with protective script and glyphs. [would look like kanji]
[If I went with this idea so would I possibly change around #251 a bit or reroll, double bookkeeping just don't feel what I want with a samurai concept even if would be something a bit different; and I would also use Deathwatch's Chapter creating system to decide a bit more info about them]


Also those tables are usually open to my experience, with the text commenting that the person using it can decide what she want or roll on the table.

We seems to read those thing differently. What do you say that we just agree tot disagree on this question?

B.t.w. where did you get that Ben Counter was forced to reveal the SD as not Dornian?

Ooooh. I feel stupid now. I was so in i Wh40k acronyms that I was not htinking outside of the box and was acosiating Vulcans with Vulcan (Primarce).



B.t.w. @Anedon maybe this could be of inspiration:

 

Yes but at least the Night Lords novels do show the effect chaos had on them as time goes on, like just what happens to Cyrion, Uzas and Vandred and so on.

Okay, and again my point wasn´t "its utterly impossible" but rather "its rather unlikley".

I mean I guess, but then you could also simply ignore the rerolls if you don´t care for makeing it more plausible.

I guess we have to, the CL are a controversial chapter for a reason, some people love the concept, some like me think its a bit too far in therms of sillyness, especially as the story they are a part of is played very serious.

I mean this is pure speculation but Counter is a bit strange on the whole Dorn thing in his first SD novels, like saying Dorn was the only primarch who never wavered, when in the lore Dorn had the whole Iron Cage incident, and at least officially Guilliman and Sanguinuis never wavered as far as I know.
And then there are just a few aspects of the SD than don´t seem to fit with Dorn and his lore, like the Soul Drinkers disregard for authority, their preference for quick combat instead of the Dorns slower methodical approach, their relative quick adoption of a cult and quick tolerance of mutation also don´t feel that Dornian. They have nothing of the honorable knight stuff Dorns son usually have, something that is even to some extend present in the CS.

So my theory, and its just that, is that some GW people came to the conclusion that the SD don´t really fit Dorn, or maybe Ben Counter came to that conclusion himself eventually. Its just that this revealtion comes kind of out of nowhere in the last SD book and never really goes anywhere from that point onwards. So my guess is that either Counter himself felt they didn´t fit Dorn, or maybe some people at GW pushed for that change.

Oh sure, I tought you might have transelted it as "Sequel Trilogy".

That seems intresting, might have a look at it later.

 

Working on my HQ this week. Supreme Grand Master Azrael(metal model) and a fine cast Asmodai. Along with some tactical marines.

Repent for tomorrow you die!

 

https://www.deviantart.com/francescabaerald/art/Warhammer-Illuminated-Letters-854771679

"Illuminated letters done for Warhammer 'Avenging Son - Dawn of Fire' collectors edition book (Black Library)."

 

from https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/05/books-of-the-month-are-here/

"

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This tale of the Death Guard quickly became a favourite among Warhammer 40,000 fans, and delves deeply into Nurgle’s favoured Legion. The story is small scale, but the action and characters are huge – and John Banks’ narration across the 10-hour running time will draw you in and leave you wanting more.

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Well, after last weeks leaks of the new Space marine codex being worrying for me as it was looking like they where turning the Deathwing into a generic Terminator unit, the new pdf they released has me pumped to start playing. It adressed that they were not taking away mixed weapon Deathwing squads and it buffed the heck out of my HQ units with the newest version of the rules for the Inner circle keyword. It did take one of the Vehicle options awag from Sammael, the master of the Ravenwing(the Dark Angels 2nd compang which is fast attack vehicle units)

The guys over at goonhammer are saying this is thr strongest the Dark Angels have been since 2nd edition

 

Just wondering @anakincol do you have any plans to make use of the old Deathwing heraldry?



If so this might interest you https://bloodofkittens.com/wargaminghub/2017/04/07/dark-angels-tribal-markings/