Amph The Crown

Fantastic season. Probably the best since S1. Loved all the performances, especially Gillian Andersen. Loved the editing and music too. And some of the narrative metaphors.

S5 is coming in 2022. Gonna be a while. lol

 

I believe Punk has studied Wayne Sleep extensively.

 

Season 4 is a downgrade. It leans far more on soap opera than previous seasons, which had much more interesting political stuff.

 

I think it's a just that the soap opera stuff happened during that time period and was impossible to ignore. If you look at it from the Queen's perspective (which is what the show is centered on) you can even see how hard she tries to avoid drama.

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The tongue lashing she gives Charles at the end pretty well sums up how she feels about the whole thing- not to mention how she calls out Diana for enjoying the spotlight a bit too much (since we know the Queen believes there is a balance to be struck there).

I mean Charles does not fare well in this season but it's entirely due to his behavior. And the parts about Diana were an effort to be faithful to her. And Thatcher... she's not like other Prime Ministers. She was a powerful and divisive figure and her actions impacted everyone including the Queen. So all of that is impossible to ignore. Considering all of that, the Queen mostly remains above the fray yet again and continues to steadfastly hold to her beliefs despite the pushing she gets from Charles, Diana and Thatcher.

The only notable moment is her decision to leak to the Sunday Times her dissatisfaction with Thatcher. To me I think the bigger surprise was that there was blowback against the Palace and not more of it against Thatcher- especially since she was wrong and was wrong for selfish reasons (her son's business interests at the time.)

In terms of politics, they also covered quite a lot:

Spoiler

The IRA and Lord Mountbatten's murder
Thatcher's cabinet reshuffle and the reasons why
The Balkans and Thatcher's decision to go to war
The domestic impact of her policies on the people and how that impacted Elizabeth
Australia's attempt to leave the Commonwealth and Diana's role in stopping it. (Not unlike last season's episode with Princess Margaret and LBJ)
Thatchers' refusal to agree to sanctions.
Thatcher's downfall
And through it all, the politics involved in the Charles/Diana marriage and how that impacts Britain's standing in the world as well as the family's domestically.

I think though as you can see, there's a lot with Thatcher and that is where some of the soap opera comes in. Because she's such a divisive figures she almost borders on cartoony both in her appearance and voice, as well as the actions she takes.

I guess the question is how would you depict Season 4 without having to touch on those momentous, and yes soap opera-like, events?

 

They did a solid job not letting Diana's perspective dominate the season. The Iron Lady vs The Queen vs The Most Popular Woman in the World - I liked it a lot.

 

Not all the way through, but just the structural decision to focus on that triad is making me feel like this is my favorite of the 4. I am really enjoying it.

 

The attempted assassination of Thatcher and the coal miner strikes are two things that were not touched upon. Both could have been included, if their was not so much soap opera stuff and made up things, such as Thatcher going hunting in bright blue.

 

We've only watched the first episode so far, but there's something too forced about Gillian Anderson's performance. It's like she's doing an impression of Thatcher rather than just playing her. It's a bit off-putting.

 

@Mar17swgirl I thought the same thing at first, but it began really working for me after an hour or two. I'm not sure what changed, but I really buy it 5 episodes in.

 

Remind me, weren't both covered in The Iron Lady?

I mean, the show is called The Crown. So while the Prime Minister is part of the show- it's only in so much as how it impacts the Queen. And because Charles and Diana's marriage directly impacts the Crown, it also necessitates inclusion. So I can see why those were not touched on. Especially given that episode 1 already covered an assassination. I think the reason the strike wasn't covered is because they instead focused on the palace intruder. They are still limited in episode number it seems.

 

For Season 6, I think they should have Ben Stiller play Jeffrey Epstein. Kevin Spacey can play himself, obviously.

Spoiler

 

I was reading that the Balmoral tests are very real. Not sure if the details are accurate...but I love the idea of the Queen getting her kicks in cuz there's no other way. And MT referred to the castle as "purgatory"

 

In many ways @Ghost you can argue that Charles + Diana's marriage had the most direct effect to the Queen's reign then any other event since Di obviously become more then the People's Princess, she really became their Queen and that was obviously a direct challenge to her. Now Diana's kids are a direct challenge to her as they are obviously much more power then her and especially Charles who once he gets on the throne, everyone will call him to step down so that Prince William can take the throne.

And @Mar17swgirl her voice is a bit over the top but her mannerisms and spirit are definitely Thatcher. Obviously nobody is going to be better then Meryl Streep in "Iron Lady" but Gillian Anderson I think did a good job overall. I am curious who they will get to play Tony Blair as I do not think they can have Michael Sheen play him yet again LOL!

 

Why did you tag me?

 

I haven’t seen it, so I can’t remind you, and don’t see the relevance.

You like the soap opera stuff more than I, no need to be defensive. YMMV as in all things.

 

The stuff with Thatcher in this latest season was rather inexplicable. The show would have you believe the Queen and Thatcher endured a lukewarm relationship with each other, but in real life, Thatcher was made baroness, invited to the wedding of William and Kate (the only Prime Minister, I think), and honored by the presence of the Queen at one of her birthday parties. There’s nothing in the show to indicate this friendship, besides the Order of Merit awarded in the last episode, which came across to me as more of a grudging recognition-type of thing.

I don’t think the writers of the show knew what to do with Thatcher. Maybe they were scared by her deeply polarizing position in modern history, and didn’t want to scare half their audience away by making Marge and Lizzie look like besties.

Guess I just have to keep reminding myself this is a fictional show, after all

edit: Cameron and Major were invited, too, apparently

 

I wasn’t trying to be defensive to be honest. I was actually asking. It’s been years since I saw it, but I think at least the assassination was covered

Also, to be honest there were some episodes I didn’t like. And the soap opera parts you cite were part of it. But I think with only 10 episodes per season, they just couldn’t get everything in within the 11 years Thatcher was PM. Had they broken her up into another season, then perhaps they could have.

 

It’s all good. I just could have done with less Charles and Diana and such. It got hammered home a bit too much for me, when I would have liked more time spent elsewhere. Liz’s reaction to the bombing, or the Yorkshire miner strike would have been more interesting to me. The Falklands, beyond Andrew being a bit of a ****, would have been more interesting.