JCC Political ****posting Thread

I'd say if the proper expression of Leninism is a capitalist country ~but it has a politburo~ then as a socialist program it's about as worthless as Paul Mattick always said it was. However, I don't think that's the case. Nor do I think Marx was especially in the "take what you can get" camp given his repeated and correct willingness to drag even his so-called adherents through the mud for their doctrinal deficiencies. I'm not a meme leftcom, I don't think Marxist revolutionaries were crypto-bourgies or whatever. But if we're not learning from where these things went wrong (and because we still live under a thriving and contradictory laden capitalism they all absolutely did), and just excusing their slides into capitalism if there are enough red flags, then it's all worthless.

And I would hope I didn't have to explain to anyone purporting to be any kind of Marxist that Yugo-****ing-slavia is not really a worthwhile example of much of anything in terms of socialist goals.

Edit: On a lighter but no less sectarian note:

 

For the record I am dunking on all of us with that last bit.

 

vncramza

 

the true Marxist ideology.

And to be clear, even market socialism is something and taking what you can get is not an excuse for state capitalism, but we must be pragmatic. Yugoslavia was more a matter of contrast, you have it or the USSR, Angola or Cuba, etc. Variations, many bad some good, all shaped often against their will. "real socialism" is irrelevant to socialist struggle when it is happening. I am not defending Titoism, I legit have never even met a Titoist in person before, they may be a myth

A nation that was bombed into the stone age and embargoed for decades is not going to fit an ideal socialist economic plan. Socialism is already a transitionary state, and Vietnam has been through hell only to go back into hell when the USSR collapsed and they lost their relationship.

Vietnam is not sliding into capitalism with red flags, like I get the concern and an facepalming non-stop at tankies talking about China; but I feel it is reductive given Vietnam's circumstances and genuine dedication to socialism ideologically. A capitalist nation with red flags is not the same as a flawed socialist nation, and to be frank I find the implication dismissive and leaning towards puritanical. I get that that's not the intent, but I think the critique is simplistic and rude to the literal communists in Vietnam. They live a more socialist existence everyday than probably anyone here, sure they have compromises, rather unfortunate ones, but they still have that lived experience and actually exist.
Luna has a video more specifically about this. I just reject the idea that markets = capitalism or that Vietnam is not socialist due to it not perfectly meeting Marx's vision of late 19th century Europe

excuse the stereotype of the non-vietnamese leftist screaming that Vietnam is not socialist cause reddit said so, obviously that was for effect. But I think that actually highlights something important, that is what the attitudes of leftists who say that feels like to actual Vietnamese comrades.

If we wanna have solidarity, that does not mean uncritically believing any nation with a red flag is commie, trust me I made that mistake and am not allowed in Switzerland anymore, but it does mean having critical support with Vietnam and appreciating why aberrations occur when socialism is put into actual practice and then bombed and blockaded. It is easy to critique, but much harder to maintain a revolution in spite of embargo and invasion from capitalists and Chinese communists.

Sorry Vivec, memes as penance, I wanted to make up here clarity.

also found LordBan's dog

and hey can't be sectarian without also dunking on Bernie-types

 

somebody kill me

 

Society's working on it

 

and not the walls of text? I mean I wouldn't like me given the text. I am assuming it is the last meme?

 

I didn't start the srsposting this time.

aww why thank you. The 2nd one is cause people respond to amazing posts with something like this

but instead.....well ya know different kind of king

 

Just for you, vncredleader:

 

I just wanted to show up here to gloat.

 

I get the sense that that's a lie for some reason. everyone is socialist until a revolution succeeds. It's a tail as old as time

Is it really insufferable to ask that people listen to Vietnamese people as to whether or not their country is socialist? I feel it is pretty warranted, moreso than the armchair observers. Leftcoms gonna leftcom

 

Oh I know, it is just healthier to make leftcom jokes than trot ones. Cause I swear to god I will gouge my own eyes out if I see another unfunny ice-pick meme. So much material wasted

 

You know that scene in the beginning of the

 

EX-CEo of Overstock.com

Now he’s back, with what he has described as his own personal “army,” touting what he claims is proof that Democrats stole the election from Donald Trump.

“I’ve funded a team of hackers and cybersleuths, other people with odd skills,” Byrne said in a Tuesday interview at One America News, where OAN personality Chanel Rion praised Byrne as the head of an “elite shadow cyber security team.”

“I’m a free agent, and I’m self-funded, and I’m funding this army of various odd people,” Byrne said in a Nov. 23 appearance on a podcast with a QAnon promoter who used the name InTheMatrixxx. “It’s really going to make a great movie someday.”

During his post-election media tour, Byrne has made a series of other strange claims, including that he could be the reincarnation of an ancient Chinese monk.

“I love the Chinese, I speak Chinese, I think I’m the reincarnation of a Shaolin monk, maybe,” Byrne said on the “InTheMatrixxx” podcast.

 

You are enjoying my suffering nobody deserves a vnc wall do text