TV Discussion The Jedi: Their Roles and Philosophies in Star Wars TV

He even photoshopped Rey as Mara jade, lol.

 

Filoni knows how to be political when he has to. He's not going to come right out and say he disagrees with what they did with Luke in TLJ. If he disagrees, we'll see that in how the Luke appearances he's connected to provide divergent characterizations from TLJ Luke.

 

Well Filoni compares him to Frodo after the war and how he goes away to heal, and how Luke does something similar. Maybe Filoni will give more context and better explain. He has said he likes it and has referenced it in his works, so take it how you will.

 

I think you're right. I just can't see Filoni agreeing with that bleak outcome for Luke. The TLJ treatment is of this new cancerous trend toward 'subverting expectations' that salted the decades-old ground of the ASOIAF series in the course of ~10 episodes. Somehow "Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to" was sold as a virtue in TLJ that even Yoda appeared to agreed with. ...and this was in regard to the series and characters that had captured everyone's imagination since 1979. "Kill it". ...that's what they thought they should do.

 

peopel alsways bring on kill the past, but always forget Yoda's dialogue of accepting the past and move on, we are they grow beyond. Filoni agrres with Luke in exile and no marriage or kids like GL.

 

There's no need to "grow beyond" characters we love. Enjoying classic characters does not imply that there's something dysfunctional with fans. This whole emphasis on moving on is quite strange because it's the kind of rhetoric used in conversations about trauma. But enjoying the OT is not analogous to having gone through a trauma that must be grown beyond.

The ST tried to toot its own horn in a very perverse way. Enjoy our characters or you're a dysfunctional fan. That's all absolute nonsense, and fans don't need to take it seriously.

Do you have a quote from Filoni that he would write Luke the same way Johnson did? If not, it's not accurate to keep telling people he agrees with it.

And even if Filoni did agree with everything Johnson did (unlikely), that doesn't mean Favreau does. Favreau's values are what's pushing this new era forward so far, and it's clear that his vision of Luke is one that many can agree with.

 

It's in the art of rise or skywalker, where Filoni compares Luke to frodo and talks of Luke as a jedi. the story there he likes with Luke. I think that Yoda qoute is one of the more meaningfull qoutes of lessons.

 

Oh, yeah, I agree -- "spoil" wasn't quite the right word, I just meant that the scenes they choose to feature in the "previously" montage do signal what's going to be addressed in the episode, so, especially given that the storytelling is pretty straightforward, it makes things a lot easier to guess. That was the case here, and when we got shots of the "mysterious stranger" approaching Fennec's "body", and a few other times. It's not a complaint, really.

 

I'd be interested to see the exact quote, but I'm sure you're aware that Filoni would never attack the ST in a book about the ST.

 

This is Filoni talking about Luke and Leia before the release of TFA. Also after the TFA there's a video conference where he gets awarded for his rebels series and talks about the Rey and her fight with Kylo ren praising their fight. And recent comments he praises RJ for the one to help him the animation guy into live action and Filoni was mutch in the set of TLJ. He aslo praised TLJ when first came out.

 

Personally, I loved Luke's arc through the sequels. I know a lot didn't, but it's cool, we're not all going to like the same things. For those who didn't like it though, having a 30 some year gap between trilogies means you at least have a lot of time to tell a lot of compelling stories to fill in the blanks. Maybe in doing so, as the gap gets filled in, it'll change your perspective on Luke in the sequels. I can fully understand and appreciate how the change can be jarring without the exposition and elaboration of the events that led Luke to become what he became. Whether you loved it or hated it, I think we can all agree we do want more stories about Luke's exploits between trilogies. Hopefully his appearance in the Mandalorian is the first step in filling in the gaps.

 

If we did it based on his entire video library he had probably guessed something correctly like 3 or 4 times. A broken clock is right twice and day. And I hope no one here actually thinks he isn’t just guessing since that’s what he is just literal fake news.

 

It be funny if Rey just replaced Mara jade.

 

I like Filoni’s “Frodo” take on Luke. Which is why I was also against calls for Luke to have a more Samwise Gamgee ending - married and happy with kids. He should stay a bit apart and alone, with the pain of his conflict with his father “never fully healing.” Doesn’t mean his TLJ arc was a natural conclusion to his character, but I also didn’t like the settle down with Mara Jade stuff.

 

I think his arc in TLJ is mutch better then his little poppy dog love with a red head.

 

Which was the ending for Luke... nowhere.

I will take Mara Jade over anything really, let alone how we saw Mark Hamill in the ST

 

I didn't like Luke settling down and having a family with Mara. Their story was more interesting prior to that and I think they should have ultimately not stayed together. I like Mara Jade in the earlier EU stories where she still has an edge and has her own thing going on separate from Luke.

 

Luke’s arc in ST was basically a rehash of OT Obi Wan and Yoda, which I never felt fit his character because the whole point was he learned from their mistakes.

Then JJ and Rian decided, nah he just screwed up the same way they did.

 

I think there was a way to make Luke a wandering loner without having him wracked by guilt for thinking about murdering his nephew who goes on to murder all his students...The options weren’t “settle down with Mara Jade, have kids, drive a minivan, and run a galactically successful Mega Jedi Academy” and “completely give up while fascists take over the galaxy again.” There were more plausible and character-respecting middle grounds that could’ve been explored...

I blame it on the penchant for extremism among populist filmmakers. Nuance is treated as storytelling weakness.

 

i can agree with that, but am glad with what we got with still honoring GL wishes with Luke.

 

Luke has the burden, that's what happened when Yoda and Obi-Wan entrusted the return of the Jedi to him, every loss then adds to the burden. It may make him more serious, as Yoda taught him about Jedi having "the most serious mind" and he wouldn't be human if it didn't make him grouchy but everyone that watched Luke in the OT would believe he would still try to make it right...not hide away.

That's why TM got it so right, not that the ST got it definitively wrong...

 

Agreed.

...and it's still ok for us to have hero stories. We don't need everything to give us a bitter taste of reality. Did you think Luke Skywalker - your hero since you were a child - would go on to more great things? Well, sorry, he lives a very sad, lonely, miserable life of failure. That's meant to be clever writing!? Han, the reformed loner/scoundrel who went legit and married the princess? Nah, his family split up, and he left his wife to return to his life of smuggling and ripping off his customers (and killing them when they try to collect the debt).

 

A lot happened between Order 66 and 2nd Death Star - enough for Darth Vader to determine to let go of saving Padme and overthrowing the Emperor. I don't know why it's so hard to grasp that somewhere in 25 years Luke evolves/changes.

The idea that Luke is so internally good or grounded that the events that took place are considered absurd seems to be a major stretch. Now if Luke as presented in the ST happened within 10 years of ROTJ, I think it would be a lot more problematic. I also don't think that the ST was done perfectly and don't think they necessarily gave the best story for the character, but it was presented to us as "this is how it is" and we really don't have any reason to believe that it's not from a strict storytelling perspective. You don't have to like it, but to pretend it's a ridiculous outcome is a stretch.

All the being said - I think we have an opportunity to see some of his early failures here and how it started him down that path.

 

I don't think anyone's failing to grasp anything. The writer chose this 'future' for the character and that decision was a mistake. They chose to send the story down that path in the ST. I think the last thing I want to see from any future SW content is details on Luke's early failures to help justify why his life ended in such despair. People that want that kind of thing should just go watch Requiem For A Dream or something.

 

This is star wars not lord of the rings
Love Filoni but don't see that take at all
Frodo is a much more complex and fallible character compared to Luke, in many ways that type of fantasy justifying the ST is exactly why I'm so glad Disney is working overtime to get back in the fanservice business
People want to see Luke happy and achieving something after his ordeal
training grogu
saving people
showing empathy

For all his efforts to amount to nothing and everything be pointless is not what star wars should be

Even the stuff with ahsoka shows how the jedi can't just be hitched to this black future because someone down the line didn't plan