Amph Here's Some Money, Go See A Swap Thing: DCU/Elseworlds Discussion

Probably more tone deaf to make this, yet again, about the SnyderCut.

 

Yes, because I mentioned the words "Snyder" and "cut" in my post.

 

We’re in the DC thread. You mention Warner’s giving minorities the short end of the stick, right after the whole thing about Cyborg. Seems like just another excuse to have a go at Warner Brothers for the usual reasons.

Also I can read all the Twitter responses from Snyderfans.

 

What whole thing about Cyborg? I didn't mention anything about Cyborg.

 

WB: Issues the exact same statement as almost literally every other media company.
Snyder Fans:

 

Well, how many characters of color did they cut out of Justice League? And they ignored the pitch for an Atom film that would have beaten Marvel to the punch. And Famuyiwa’s rejected Flash script that tackled racism. And then they cut Green Lantern out of ZSJL.

Like come on, it’s ridiculous. It’s why the idea of the black Superman movie was met with hostility. They are just virtue-signaling now.

This is a separate issue from Snyder altogether, let’s not equate the two.

 

Ray Fisher's reaction is priceless (NSFW so under spoiler tags):

Spoiler

And this parody pretty much sums it up (some strong language so under spoiler tags also):

Spoiler

 

Warner Bros is not just Zack Snyder and Justice League though.
And I think that is the problem with the blowback from (mostly) Snyder fans.

Also, while they screwed up on one area, people ignore the many ways where they beat Marvel to the punch in tv- especially when it comes to superheroes of color and LGBTQ superheroes:

- Openly Bisexual superhero on tv: White Canary, Constantine, Penguin (Gotham)
- Openly Gay superhero on tv: Batwoman, Ava Sharpe, Mr. Terrific, Alex Danvers, Negative Man (Doom Patrol)
- Black Superhero: Black Lightning, Batwoman, Martian Manhunter, Miss Martian, Starfire
- Transgender Hero: Dreamer
- Female Lead Suprhero: Supergirl, Batwoman, and yes Legends with Captain Sarah Lance, and now Stargirl
- Interracial marriage & couples: John & Lyla, Barry & Iris, Alex and Kelly
- Gay Marriage: Mr. Terrific (later divorced)


I'm not saying some of this doesn't come across as pandering at times. I'm also not saying that WB and DC have made mistakes. But for all the focus put on ONE film, they ignore all the other shows that are incredibly diverse.

And that's also still ignoring all the other media properties.

 

While you make some sound points, movies have a much wider reach than TV shows. And the movies have not been led by diverse casts. In fact up until 2016 it was almost entirely Superman and Batman.

 

Huh, that's so weird...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_comic_series

Why would they focus on the two most popular superheroes of all time...

 

Based on those sales charts I assume you mean Goku and Monkey D. Luffy?

 

Nice job of pivoting.

 

He's not pivoting, you said they pretty much only made movies based on Batman and Superman up until 2016, and he's arguing that's based on their relative popularity and not diversity issues.

Now, Green Lantern, there's a film that could've easily been an opportunity for better representation, but no, we had to have Geoff Johns' precious bland slab of Silver Age meathead played by Ryan Reynolds farting around in a CGI mistake.

 

Fortunately, Deadpool 2 had the appropriate reaction to that Green Lantern film.

 

I don't know why any of you think Darkslayer is coming at this from a ZSJL perspective.

 

Ok, others have said it.
But a few more:

Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent and (let's please forget) Halle Berry as Catwoman- it may have been a bomb, but she did lead it.
You also have the far increased role of Lucius Fox for Morgan Freeman and Lawrence Fishburne as Perry White.

And those are the big two. As was pointed out, SHAZAM is filled with ethnically diverse heroes with the Marvel family (and the wizard Shazam himself) and Suicide Squad would be another. Birds of Prey was also quite diverse. This doesn't get into other film franchises though. The point however is that one (bad) film should not somehow hold the rest of the company hostage when in fact they've been making progress for quite a while in other films.

Ray Fisher might have had a point if that quote came from Geoff Johns or Hamada himself for instance. It came from WB the company- which has many more brands than Justice League.

And as I said after watching the cut, I agree with Joss' decision to cut Cyborg and Flash's scenes- much of that could have been for their own origin films- just like the cut scenes for Aquaman ended up filling in the plot there. And I think Aquaman is a perfect example of what happens when you try to fit too much in an ensemble film and then go to your own- more chance of contradictions and continuity errors. The only one that should have stayed was Diana's because it better explained the discovery of what was coming and why. But for the other three, the cuts did not necessarily improve anything about the film itself- just the characters which could have happened in their own film.

 

I mean, the appropriate reaction is probably to forget it ever happened and move on, but I have chosen the path of perma-rage.

...

THEY MADE PARALLAX A GIANT YELLOW FART CLOUD AND EVERYTHING LOOKED AWFUL AND IT’S FULL OF QUIPPY CRAP HUMOR AND DESPITE THE CONTROVERSY EMERALD TWILIGHT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE SUPERHERO STORIES AND THEY BOTCHED EVERYTHING ABOUT GREEN LANTERN SO BADLY IT WILL NEVER GET ANY ADAPTATION IN ANYTHING BECAUSE THE ENTIRE CHARACTER IS POISONED ****ING **** **** I WILL DIE MAD.

 

Honestly, I was never so disappointed with an adaption of a comic property (even Catwoman and Elektra and Wolverine Origins were less upsetting) as when I watched that film. Never watched it again. And I really did like the run on Hal at that point (Even though Kyle was my favorite comic lantern and John was my favorite tv/live action thanks to the Timm series)

 

I have a fairly complex relationship to Johns’ GL run (and most of Johns’ work that I’ve read, if I’m being honest), but ultimately it got me back into American comics after a long, weeby exile and it deserved better. Everything deserves better.

 

“I don’t know what you’re talking about”

You then proceed to prove my point immediately after...

 

Its even more upsetting when you consider it was one of the last films the late great Michael Clarke Duncan was in. And he was a great choice as Kilowog- even if the design of the character was terrible. Same for Tomar-Re being voiced by Geoffrey Rush. They were not lacking in talent or budget. The one thing I thought they couldn’t blow- story- is what killed the film.