Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Though speaking of Rae Sloane, that is another character that I hope to see more of in the future. It was great to see her in Squadrons and I would love to see her appear in live action as well just like Cobb Vanth from the Aftermath trilogy. Out of the characters created for the current canon, Rae Sloane has been a favorite of mine.

 

Not trying to single you out or anything but I actually don't totally accept that common wisdom--the OT Empire is super white and super male because the entire OT is super white and super male.



I don't think we can use casting to insist that the Empire is structurally sexist and racist and then just ignore scenes like this. One gets the sense that Leia and Lando--and the smattering of non-WHMs in the Rebellion by RotJ--are Lucas subtly making a point in his uniquely white-guy-circa-1980 way, but I don't think it's an accident that the only overt prejudice we see from the Empire is against aliens.

 

I agree. The original trilogy was made in the late 70s and early 80s, so it should be no surprise that it is super white and super male. One of the things that I feel like the newer Star Wars films have done very well is how diverse their casting is.

 

This video has been making the rounds lately - Carl Sagan in 1978 pointing out that everyone in ANH is a white human. Johnny Carson asks what about the aliens in the cantina, Sagan responds "but none of them seemed to be in charge of the galaxy."

 

A New Hope within the context of itself is a fascinating look at Star Wars in many ways

The Rebellion vs Empire conflict really just feels like two human factions fighting for power while the aliens are just...there

We don't know what the Rebellion stands for, for all week know they are being led by a King if Leia is a Princess.

 

Sorry for the DP

@CooperTFN

Honestly a lot of this convo came to my head when i thought about the whole is Omega Trans or Not and just how in general no one seems to be pointing out the fact that she's a girl despite being a Boba Clone.

Which in my mind at least means (Hopefully) that things like Transphobia don't exist in the Star Wars galaxy...Which I personally hope it does not since I don't think those sorta biases are necessarily needed in a fully fledged fantasy world that's not earth.

 

Oh, I'm certainly not insisting on it, and there's absolutely nothing in the text that even slightly suggests that IRL "racism" even exists in the GFFA -- it just happens to tally with the "space Nazi" thing. One does feel like Lucas edges, film by film, towards showing the good guys as more diverse (in real world terms and with more aliens as well) while the Empire stays the same, but that's pretty war-movie tropey I guess... the good guys are a motley, varied assortment of endearing underdogs vs. a monolithic and uniform enemy force.

It's possible/probable that readings might vary according to whether or not you saw the OT as it came out and within that cultural context -- I did, and also did so while forming my own cultural identity, I guess, part of which was identifying with outsiders, and so that lean sliver of representation meant a lot in terms of making the Rebels the ones worth rooting for. It was certainly a big deal at the time and it didn't seem accidental that it was all in the good guys' column. Of course it doesn't tally with the current canon, but it sticks with me.

 

@FiveFireRings

Oh it's very probably. People coming into Star Wars NOW where it's a 9 movie Saga and a whole bunch of spin-offs are gonna be reading certain aspects VERY differently to how people read things in 1977. I mean some things will remain the same, but other things different.

Also on a weird note but it's gonna be odd to think that will have a generation of kids soon who will NEVER know what it was like to have Episode 6 be the end of the Saga.


And to another point while I don't think Empire is ever worth "Rooting For" I do think that just in terms of Pop Culture the sympathetic villain trope has been expanding quite a bit from the 2010's onwards.

 

...Not really sure where this is coming from. If anything there's been a lot of discussion on Lit about how the old EU often portrayed the Empire too positively for a bunch of Space Nazis and how there's been something of a course correction in the last half-decade due to a greater awareness of how many "Earth Nazis" still exist.

 

Oh yeah, I kinda forgot about the EU for a moment. I was thinking non-book things.

 

Maybe in literature, though I really could not say seeing how I read very little of the old EU. In pop culture though, I don’t think “Rooting For” the Empire has diminished, and as long as that is the case I don’t think even the books will be able to do a complete course correction. How do you course correct dressing up as Imperial stormtroopers at fan conventions and Halloween? How do you course correct the massive cheering I heard in the theater during the premiere of Rogue One when Darth Vader cut down helpless freedom fighters? I think most of “Rooting For” the Empire is based not on them being sympathetic villains, but that the Empire looks cool.

 

I've been thinking about this problem a lot over the last few years, the difference between how we portray villains in fiction and how they are in real life. Good fictional villains are often intelligent, classy, badass, cool-looking and/or somewhat sympathetic. All of those traits make villains dynamic and fun, someone that the heroes can not only struggle against physically but mentally and philosophically as well. If villains didn't have some of these interesting traits, they would be boring and all blend together.

But as real-world villains have become more prominent in the public eye, it turns out most of them lack all of those traits. They're not classy or smart or sympathetic. They're mean, stupid, pathetic, selfish and greedy. And extremely uninteresting. I would rather have dinner with Hannibal Lector than a certain ex-President, because at least I'd get an interesting conversation out of it. The Empire is such a great villain in Star Wars because it looks cool, it's got great, interesting, dynamic characters that make it fun to watch and read about. Those factors undoubtedly make Star Wars more entertaining. But it presents an inaccurate view of fascism, which in reality is boring, mean and petty. And more common than we'd like.

I don't think there is a solution, really, and obviously people can dig the aesthetics of the Empire without becoming a fascist apologist (I have how many LEGO Tie Fighters?). But it's a thorny issue where the needs of good storytelling and the facts of reality don't line up.

 

I used to joke that Star Wars got it very wrong in terms of someone like Palpatine ever bring down democracy

Or at the very least outdated view since the Empire was pulling from the 1940's

 

Well, it was boring, mean and petty back then too. But damn if Hugo Boss couldn't design a uniform.

 

I mean politics in fiction is fine but never use it to completely live one's life.

Even war and rebellion in Star Wars is romanticized. The point in general is stand up to the oppression yes, but real life armed struggle is way harder if impossible these days.

The point is to take a basic lesson from fiction not necessarily copy what happens in the actual story.

 

Right, yeah. And I don't think people live their lives by Star Wars, even if they take the messages to heart. But there is something a little weird to me about how often people root for the Cool Space Nazis. (Well, Cool Space American Imperialists too technically but that's another conversation.)

 

So... anyone see the new Owl House episode?

 

Yepper

Spoiler

Nice Non-Binary Rep today.

 

Spoiler

And confirmation that Eda is queer.

 

Once again Disney animated television and just animated series in general are pushing boundaries in a way major franchise are probably never going to do.

Hence why I always say support these animated series more than just wait around for the big franchises to make the move.

 

This is an interesting one.

 

Just saw the new Owl House episode... and oh boy.

Spoiler

I literally squealed in joy when Amity and Luz asked each other out. And this is only episode eight of season two!

 

Once again cartoons are doing thing major franchises are too chicken to do.