CT what is so great about ESB ?

TESB is an extremely well-made movie and to this day a joy to behold, for the most part. As part of an ever-expanding cinematic universe, though, it no longer stands out nearly as much as it used to.
This is true for all Star Wars films. The first one, for instance, was at its most special before TESB came along. But then it was recontextualized, so it became a new kind of special. And as long as there was just one trilogy, those three movies really stood out as unique, groundbreaking, awe-inspiring masterpieces.
Those days are long gone, but those of us who were around to experience that will always remember and cherish that feeling. Because that level of special is all too rare these days, if it even exists.

Or maybe we’re just really old.

 

I honestly understand its popularity. It was a lot more interesting than ANH but, it ended on a cliffhanger. My favorite character in the OT is probably Han Solo or the Luke of ROTJ, and seeing him frozen in carbonite by the time the credits rolled was just sad (maybe I'm too used to good endings), so sad that I had to watch ROTJ almost immediately just to see him rescued. However the introduction of Yoda, Lando, Palpatine, and just a general more complicated story then the first was great. Also, the plot twist of Vader being Luke's dad... Although I knew about it in advance due to the culture we live in, it still was shocking to see. I think the additional elements and the plot made it iconic. [I'm a film student so,...]

 

Harrumph. Kids these days should be forced to wait 3 years like we did back in the day.

 

They should @Sarge, but I'm glad I can binge watch SW now.

 

I preferred ROTJ as a youngster but ESB is brilliant in storytelling elements revolving around the crew and better yet the cliffhanger was also sold well to me, An early depiction of the good guys not winning by the end credits.

 

It more than aptly forwards the arcs of the characters introduced in the genre-setting Star Wars- adding a new plot twist, and setting a precedent for the plot twist in narrative cinematic fiction. It adds to the lore elements that we did not see in ANH, such as the light and dark sides of the Force- and goes further in depth about the Jedi philosophy.

It also raises the stakes from before, giving an uncertain ending, and serves as a pioneer in the cinematic cliffhanger (Escape From The POTA 3 from 1971 may qualify as a debatable cliffhanger, but that movie is much lower-profile).
It expands in scenery, both ships and locations (think Executor and Cloud City), while making itself feel necessary as a sequel, which is a burden all sequels that weren't planned or not responding to a cliffhanger must face (It seems like a sequel to ANH was always planned, but the first movie itself tells a self-contained story).

Finally, and this is subjective, but the movie keeps you on your toes and encourages you to root for the main characters. It gives them time to stop the action and let the audience explore them a bit, but it also keeps them on their toes constantly at the same time.

That being said, for me TESB teeters between ROTS and ANH in my rankings, and I have to put ROTJ solidly on the top. All four of those movies are very close together for me though.

 

One thing that has always impressed me about TESB is the attention to detail (which is why I think it's pretty easily held up the best of the OT). You can just tell when you watch TESB that the threshold of "good enough" for each scene was IMO obviously higher than in other SW films (for some it was clearly MUCH higher). This is very obvious when you compare it to ROTJ - which weirdly has some of the worst effects of the OT (along with the best) and some scenes that really needed more takes because the acting was just.... not good. ROTJ has quite a few parts that are just lazy compared to TESB (look at the matte painting quality for example - like that one on the Rebel Flagship in ROTJ is BAD). FWIW, I give ANH a bit of a pass because it was the first and had much stricter budget constraints.

Another thing that was pretty groundbreaking at the time is Yoda. It's actually amazing that they were able to use a puppet for one of the most important characters and have it be totally believable and have everyone love it in a big blockbuster movie. The crazy thing is that TESB yoda was was better than the original TPM yoda puppet like 20 years later!

 

Maybe it's a generational thing but after ANH hope came out yes Star Wars A New Hope was great but think about the size of the Star Wars universe at that time (after ANH). Jedi could swing light sabers around and had some kind of wisdom but not much else. The only worlds we knew were Tatooine, the Death Star, and the rebel base which looked very earth like. Darth Vader was kind of a scary looking henchman for Tarkin but not much else. Tarkin was the main villain and just kind of a really mean old guy.

With ESB the Star Wars universe and imagination grew tenfold. The Jedi were no longer just wise dudes swinging lightsabers. Yoda (and Luke and Ben) showed us so many new abilities. Yoda lifting the ship out of the swamp, Obi-Wan's force ghost, etc... Also think of the new worlds we were introduced too. It wasn't just a sand planet and an earth looking planet anymore. We got Hoth, Degobah, and Bespin all very unique compared to what we had seen. We were introduced to imperial walkers and snow speeders on Hoth along with new stuff on the other planets as well. Darth Vader became terrifyingly more powerful and driven. He was an unstoppable force that crushed anyone standing in his way. Minus the very small Emperor scene Vader was the ultimate villain and it was this movie that made him a legendary movie villain. And on top of that the main characters Luke, Han, and Leia were not very deep after ANH. ESB added so much depth to their characters putting them through many tough situations and failures. Most heroes don't end movies missing a hand or frozen in carbonite. The ending left the audience dying to see what happened next and it was a very long 3 years to get answers.

Honestly for me ROTJ didn't quite live up to the lofty expectations left by ESB. ESB was soooo good and I was expecting ROTJ to be just as good but it just wasn't with the exception of the space battle and most of the throne room scene. Other than that ROTJ kind of let me down with the Jabbas muppet show and the ridiculous Ewoks beating stormtroopers with rocks. Note that they WERE originally going to be wookies but the Teddy Ruxpin doll was popular at the time and Lucas wanted to try to cash in on something cuter.

In other words I wanted this:



But I got this:



For me Star Wars has never reached the level of ESB again. It's had moments for sure but what a time it was to be a Star Wars fan between 1980 and 1983. Every kid was dying to get Star Wars toys for Christmas. Myself included. Everybody (kids and adults) wanted to know if Darth Vader was really Luke's father or if he was lying. Everybody (kids and adults) wanted to know what would happen to Han Solo. So many questions that everybody was dying to know answers for for 3 years. And with no internet at the time you had to wait and eventually buy your movie ticket 3 years later to find out.

 

Oh... this is why ESB is great

 

Well they're going to be waiting a LOT more than that now, since there's not really any SW film officially set to be released anytime soon-not to mention the last one was now over three years ago!

Assuming they actually DO release a film in 2023 (which unless we're in for some surprise announcement at Celebration, is unlikely now), that means it would've been five years since the last SW movie. It's looking like it will actually be more.

 

Wasn't The Rise of Skywalker released in December 2019 - 2.5 years ago, not 3?

 

...Not if you round up, buddy!


Still, 4.5 years...5 years...likely even more = a long time without a SW film in theaters. Especially after we spent five years getting more or less one each year!

 

All these pages of discussion, but the question was answered here.

 

Might as well lock now...

 

I think a big part of it is that Star Wars was so widely loved Empire had huge expectations and was able to live up to them as worthy follow-up, it was a very different kind of film, very much went its own way (when most sequels then and even now don't) and despite that it felt similar enough that it felt like it was still pretty consistent with and true to its predecessor.

I love that behind the scenes, from the Empire of Dreams documentary, Kershner initially didn't think he could make a film that was as good as Star Wars and Lucas told him he wanted it to be better.

I do think the original film is still a bit better but both are excellent.

 

I am with you, to some extent; but I think (probably like all films/media), it at least partially depends WHEN it was first experienced.

I was 11 when TESB was released, and was hoping for a boatload of “new cool stuff” hardware and set-wise; and the thing is, we got that! (First sight of the walkers through the macros…*swoon*) But it was undermined by elements I personally found, for lack of a better word, cheesy - force ghosts, taun-taun/wampa stuff, yoda, Han/Leia romance (11 year old “ick!”) - things I’ve appreciated (at least, more so) later in life, but kneecapped “my” Star Wars at the time.

Which I suppose is the essence of why we prefer anything, eh; timing, first impressions, and all that. It can take awhile to find new appreciation for things once reviled (or at least found mediocre).

 

As a child ROTJ was my favorite movie. Over the years I realized that I liked the TESB the best. ANH was a slow paced movie at times. That big tractor thing that the Jawas used took forever to move and that lightsaber fight between Obiwan and Vader was really bad. Let's be real, that is the worst lightsaber fight in all the Starwars movies. Still a good movie, but that fight scene was bad and Obiwan chose to die for no reason. TESB has the most happening in it in terms of character development and plot. ROTJ is actually a whole lot of action sequences toward the end, and a repeat of the 4th one with the death star. There are some really great parts like Vader killing Palpatine at the end, but there is a lot of filler too.

 

As a kid, ESB was the boring one. Not a whole lot of aliens, not as much “pew pew,” no big space battles.

RotJ was the best by far and ANH a distant second.

As I’ve gotten older though, that completely changed though as ships, number of gun fights, and aliens don’t make a movie great. It’s the characters. I feel like ESB had a small roster of characters, and they were all important with a role to play. The story was focused. I feel like the simplicity of ANH and ESB are their strengths, though as a kid they were definitely the two lacking installments as I was more interested in ships and aliens that I could own as toys.

Having said that. I do think that ESB too often gets put on a pedestal. I will always prefer ANH myself. ESB is a good film, but I don’t think it’s perfect. And while action scenes don’t make a great movie, they do help with rewatchability IMO, and I’d be far less inclined to watch ESB than most of the other films.


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As a kid I thought Empire was a little too dark, unrelentingly, numbingly so, it was still better than overly light Jedi but ANH was much better than either with right/best balanced tone.

I still think parts of Empire are a little excessively, numbingly dark, mostly that Luke fails in or comes off looking badly in pretty much every one of his scenes with Yoda, Leia being afraid even in Cloud City that Han will quickly be leaving is also a bit much, but the strengths are stronger and the going into and focusing on the Dark Side, including that even Luke has elements of it, that the film did are still really interesting and well-done and it is still satisfying that Luke resists it and his friends still rescue him, are able to survive.

 

There's lots of reasons ESB is the best and most acclaimed, but one standout for me is it has some of the coolest Vader lines:

"We would be honored if you would join us."
"Perhaps you think you are being treated unfairly?"
"I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."

More stuff should feature the cutthroat businessman side of Vader.

 

"Apology accepted, Captain Needa."

 

Yeah, ESB has, like, pretty much all of Vader's best lines. It's all memorable. JEJ's performance is at the forefront of the character.

 

All the characters lines and action was ramped up and it made the film what it is today. Similar to many of you, I loved the film growing up (had my own Dagobah spot with Yoda in the back woods/ the awesome action figures) but as a young adult it clicked more and moved up to the #1 favorite SW (and maybe all time) movie.
It had everything in it and was accomplished amongst impossible odds. Yes there was more $ to get it done, but they still ran out and had the hollywood bank pull their loan. Times were stressful on top of trying to out do the biggest movie of all time.

To have solid lovable characters established and then to add to them with a raised level of humanism plus add new historic characters, was truly amazing and a testament to how great this film is.

 

whoa, I thought you were gonna say SW is just on another level and nothing else can really be compared to them fairly!
that I would agree with. SW is the definition of next level! The most influential movies of all time I'd say.