Mini Series Obi-Wan Kenobi - Part 3 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I think this bit of dialogue is the reason some feel Ben is giving off mixed signals.

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Nari: What about the people that need us? What about the fight?

Ben: The fight is done. We lost.

Nari: What happened to you? You were once a great Jedi.

Ben: The time of the Jedi is over. Go back to the town. Let it go.
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-I'm loving Leia's subconscious use of the Force to read people

- I thought the Vader vs Obi Wan fight was pretty awesome. By far the darkest Vader scene in the franchise. It's one thing to be force-choking dudes shooting at you or underlings failing you, but it's another to snap a kid's neck and Force-lynch some lady just because.

 

Which makes some of the hot take criticisms on Wednesday that said Vader was not as evil as he should've been like in Rogue One absolutely hilarious. Like dude killed civilians, Force neck snapped a kid, and not because they committed any crimes, but for something as trivial as drawing out Obi Wan to settle a score.

 

Regardless of the mechanics of turning the Force off/on, one thing that’s clear is Obi-Wan is out of practice. Interpersonally and in combat. The first time he punches a guy in Part 2, it hurts. Little details like that. The PT shows Jedi kind of at the height of their combat game (albeit dumb as rocks). The Disney merger era, for all its flaws, has at least done a nice job showing that in other contexts the weapons can be clumsy and things can hurt.

 

But that seems selfishly arrogant though. a young jedi comes to him, Obi Wan does not hear him out and just pushes the guy away. because he believes this 10 year old will be the future of the jedi?

I don't believe for one moment Obi Wan has any sense of what the future will hold for Luke. Or this idea Luke alone will take down the empire. He just pushed away a young jedi, whose now dead. who now Obi Wan probably will question whether he could have stopped that if he had helped the kid.

Its clear at this point in Star Wars that there are more jedi out there in the galaxy being hunted down, So Obi Wan's dismissal of a fellow jedi wanting help, seems more like admitting to self-defeat. Which is probably the case.

 

Another take on that though is that obviously Yoda and Obi-wan know that Luke is extremely important based on the end of ROTS and while this young Jedi could be anything, he is not connected to the chosen one. Obi-wan does seem in two minds about helping this guy or not but he is stuck between a rock and a hard place at this point. There are three inquisitors at least in town and he is out of practice, so he isn't going to be able to take them down in his current state. He also knows that this other Jedi's presence puts his mission in danger. Obi-wan is not the Jedi he once was but even during the Clone Wars, he kind of showed that he was willing to make difficult decisions like this. I think when he sees the Jedi hanging, he obviously feels bad but it might have been a bit of a kick starter for him to get back in the fight so to speak so that this Jedi's loss isn't wasted.

 

Its complicated because if you are too believe that Obi Wan is waiting 20 years to train this kid to be the future of the jedi. Then you got a fairly selfish and arrogant character here. Thats kinda the issue with Obi Wan sending this kid away. There are loads of jedi out in the galaxy still. So you either have to accept that Obi Wan believes hiding is the right thing, or you believe he send this young jedi away so he can train this 10 year old when he comes of age, while all other jedi in the galaxy are wiped out.

 

I think the fantasy is often that Obi Wan could see the future and knew this kid would somehow take down the empire and stop his father the way none of the other surviving jedi could. So let them die. But unless you believe Obi Wan has accepted defeat, as he says in the first episode. It just makes him seem abit selfish.

If you was to look at Obi Wan as a defeated person. It makes sense as to why he would be the way he is. if he isn't defeated, then he is just pure plain arogance.

 

Are you arguing that Star Wars fans should not take things out of context?

Cc: @DonQuixote

 

This is important. It plays into one of the major themes of the story. The Inquisitors talk about how Jedi "hunt themselves" by being altruistic and how that is fundamental to who they are. Obi-Wan knows this and he knows that, in order to protect Luke, he needs to not act as a Jedi. He can't stand up for the worker being bullied by his boss and he has no help to offer Nari except to lie low. Consistently doing this for ten years has broken Obi-Wan down and he's depressed about it because he feels he needs to act against his very nature as a Jedi for the greater good.

I think it's been handled really well, personally. It makes complete sense for Obi-Wan's character and the position he's in and it keeps him sympathetic.

 

........and he'd 'switched himself off' from the force too.

 

If you want to see Obi Wan as a building block for Lukes success, then you will just accept his only place in this is to wait for Luke. But if you look at Obi Wan as a character in his own, thats when you do start to question his own decisions.

 

As a character, on his own, his mission is to keep Luke safe until it’s safe enough to train him as a Jedi. And in that context, his decisions have been sound.

 

Except where does it come from? i mean the idea that Obi Wan would hide after the empire takes over and Jedi are being hunted, makes sense. The idea that maybe Obi wan would watch over Anakins son and would want to train Luke if he turned to be force sensitive makes sense. But putting all your thought into a child being the savior of the galaxy, and as we found out with anakin, doesn't always end in a good way. It seems sorta like he is sacrificing his own family to train this kid. There is no call to action for Obi Wan for a reason. Thats because of his unwillingness to get involved himself. And that overall is questionable for his character, unless you look at him as a building block for another character to be the hero

Thats ignoring of course that Luke was 19 and Luke finding 2 droids that had a secret message from his secret sister and led him to Obi Wan, who then trains him. When was Obi Wan planning on training Luke before things got really bad?

So if you see it as a building block, you don't tend to think about what Obi Wan is sacrificing and whether its all for a good reason. If you look at Obi Wan who believes hiding is the right decision, i think its abit different. Same with Yoda, who even yoda didn't want to train Luke.

 

It makes complete sense as you say and has been really well handled.

To add...

Although Obi-Wan wasn't there, Nari actually stated something in the canteen along the line that the Inquisitors wouldn't find them all. He pretty much gave the game away that he knows who/where they (Jedi) are! Or implied it. Which is dangerous at best.

In spite of not knowing this, Obi-Wan's interaction with Nari - who has no reason to trust anyway given that Inquisitors were once-Jedi - is to protect his own identity and that of Luke and Leia, to avoid a terrible evil (or two). Balancing the risk to children and their family against the risk to an adult who is only saving himself, isn't selfish. It's sensible and altruistic!

Good question. I'm sure we've all had plans that got brought forward though.

Leia's message was it, and it coincided with a pretty bad time.

 

Hmmm. I've long held the opinion that it was NOT necessarily Yoda and Obi-Wan's endgame/mission to train Luke/Leia to overthrow the Emperor/Empire.

Consider the films:

ROTS: Yoda talks about hiding the twins to keep them safe. Yoda talks about waiting until the time is right to reveal themselves. Yet, Yoda says nothing about training these kids to do anything.

ANH kind of makes it seem like Obi-Wan has been waiting to train Luke. For how long though? If this would happen, when would it occur? Obi-Wan is just sort of waiting around for it...more importantly... it has to be Luke's decision/choice. Only when Owen and Beru are killed is Luke even open to being trained. It wasn't going to happen otherwise.

ESB: It is made clear in this film that Yoda is vehemently AGAINST training Luke. So, how are we to believe that Yoda/Obi-Wan have some sort of plan that hinges on hiding/waiting for the right time to train Luke? Yoda trains the kid begrudgingly.

In short, I think that the idea of training Luke and a belief in a new hope is something Obi-Wan comes to later on his own (apart from Yoda) and is exactly what we are seeing play out in this series.

 

I think some viewers need Fennec Shand perpetually at Obi-Wan’s side to discuss and describe out loud Obi-Wan’s internal monologue.

 

Agreed. I also got a massive headache reading that, and have since taken a couple Advils.