main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Mini Series Obi-Wan Kenobi - Part 5 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Todd the Jedi , Jun 14, 2022.

?

Grade the Episode

Poll closed Jun 22, 2022.
  1. 10

    31.0%
  2. 9

    26.7%
  3. 8

    17.1%
  4. 7

    14.4%
  5. 6

    4.8%
  6. 5

    1.6%
  7. 4

    1.6%
  8. 3

    0.5%
  9. 2

    0.5%
  10. 1

    1.6%
  1. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    i messed up in previous post... i meant where ppl like anakin join the dark side against the light side... he doesn't have legit grievance against the jedi but against the sith... but he can't see it... really that reva can't quite see it either helps the story... she's trying to hold the guilty accountable but she is too lost to notice what the difference is, but how could she, she was a child... anyway i have tremendous sympathy for her bc of that

    but... ps... this reminds me of characters like maul.. he's an adult child... he was probably taken advantage of before he could grow up... like disney star wars is clearly making a connection between trauma/abuse and falling to the dark side... like i do feel sorry for maul in rebels... but that doesn't mean i pity him when light side ppl defeat him... i just pity him for being corrupted by sidious from an early age and it's terrible... i don't know that he stood a chance.

    children need proper caregivers. they really do. and if they don't have them, it can ruin them. and ps that's why i was so glad grogu returned to mando. he needs a dad, a parent. it's essential. and i'm glad luke saw it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I have a lot of sympathy for Reva.
     
  3. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    The jedi were the care givers. The jedi teach younglings to grow up without attachments that would lead to things like revenge. That is the point of the no attachment rule. Grogu can't be trained any further if he was gonna have a strong attachment to someone. The more power he gets taught the more that could make him and his attachment dangerous if the worst were to happen.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  4. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    There’s a huge difference between blaming Padme for Anakin’s actions (which I’m not doing) and acknowledging that he was probably the worst boyfriend/husband someone with her amount of forgiveness could probably have had the misfortune of falling in love with (which is what I am doing). She fell hard for someone who became a monstrous, ruthless, child killing dictator who told her he was a child killer before she married him. He slowly opened his darkening soul to her more and more as their relationship deepened and she stood by him and didn’t grasp the extent of the warning signs. I do believe that in doing so he came to a misguided notion that the two of them were partners who could work things out regardless of his actions. Even if she, herself, never signed up for that. She saw the good in him. Right to the end. She wanted to run away with him right until the final red flag became clear to her just how far gone and capable of evil and anger he truly was. Many people probably think of them as a match made in heaven because of their strengths. My thesis is that because of their most self-damaging traits ended up combining in a problematic way they were actually not an ideal match. Is there any denying that she seems less the fierce independent woman we first met her as the longer she’s around him? Is there any denying that he became personally obsessed with her in an extremely unhealthy and dangerous way and came to a misguided belief she’d want to rule the galaxy with him even after he killed kids? How do both of those things happen to those two? It’s a lot of things but it’s also the impact their relationship had on each of them.

    This is why I feel Kenobi must remind him in this show that Padme loved the best of him. Not the worst.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  5. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    the issue with star wars is reflective of a larger issue... it criticizes binary thinking while also supporting it... in real life good/evil is not clear cut. any unnuanced understanding is inaccurate. star wars can't easily reconcile that which is annoying bc george lucas said this was breaking down the world religions to sth easy to understand... if only it was... i was a phl major and my grades were good in all those courses.... there isnt' 0 1 there is only nuance... star wars is going too black/white and it's reflecting US culture in that... there is another way... to win.

    ps white fragility rests on a binary 01 goodeveil FAKE dichotomy. this is a real issue. let's not kid ourselves where this comes from... puritanical christianity that was used to conquer so many peoples. so for all those who say star wars is hypocritical they are right, but not for the right reasons... is reva evil is she good? ask youself given what she went through. what is she in real life? a trauma victim. THE END.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  6. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    She is evil and became that way for sympathetic reasons.

    I am probably a binary thinker and became that way because I have seen too much tolerance in our society of bad behavior because “but they felt…” (with no attempt to put societal structures in place to give them a better starting point) and definitely too much blame deflection and tolerance of various iterations of the “but they made me” defense.

    We would have a better world if people did not feel entitled to react however they damn well pleased every time they felt anger or any other negative emotion.


    All of this is still blaming her.

    Only late in ROTS, because of Lucas wanting the dumb wilting flower trope.

    No, but that is his fault, not hers.

    It happened to Padme because Lucas was more interested in bad trope than character development and because he does not care about continuity and has said as much. Not because he wanted the Adam and Eve Defense in your “thesis.”

    It happened to Anakin because he lost his damn mind.

    That could be a good scene. But Anakin is an idiot if he did not get that from “You’re going down a path I can’t follow.” That was pretty straightforward.
     
  8. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    I don’t think that particular bit is clunky. The OT made it clear that Vader did monstrous things. He stood there while a highly inhabited world got blown up. How many children were on Alderaan at that time?

    What maybe came as a surprise was the prequels doing something as visceral as showing/implying he personally killed children with his own hands. Would it really make him look any better if somehow he didn't do that but stand around and just watch the clones do it?

    Now the show has gone one step further and really put it onscreen how he slaughters them.

    Like I said, visceral. But ultimately he is the same Vader I know from the OT in terms of badness. Whether they showed it to me onscreen in this way before or not. So my feelings on the character really haven't changed. Nor my feelings towards Obi Wan's mental gymnastics.

    And since I liked him as a character in the OT (in terms of enjoying watching him onscreen), I was open to the background exploration in the PT. Same as I like his badass villainy here.

    Reva, I understand and sympathize with the concept of her character but the show has both underserved and overused her for me and I just didn't build any emotional investment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  9. dick rodgers

    dick rodgers Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2016
    If only it were this easy haha
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  10. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Also…wut?
     
  12. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    About Padmé and Anakin: Anakin never believed that Padmé would be fine with him killing younglings. He doesn't tell her anything about what happened in the temple and when she later confronts him, he acts as if Obi-Wan made those things up to turn her against him. He's not proud of what he's done and he knows that Padmé wouldn't accept it, so he tries to keep it from her.

    The simple reality of it is that Padmé fell in love with Anakin and decided to believe that he really was as remorseful as he appeared to be after the Tusken slaughter; that he would overcome the hate and learn from his mistakes - and I think Anakin also believed that at the time.
    The difference between them is that his take on it was more selfish. He wanted to overcome his flaws in order to become the most powerful Jedi ever. An ambition made impossible by itself, basically. Ironic.

    It can be said that Padmé made a mistake. But mostly in the sense that it turned out she was wrong. Anakin didn't learn. And that's obviously on him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  13. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I was jokingly making the point that this has gone far afield of the thread topic, but is a good discussion.

    Also, though I don't mod this thread, I would like to request that we remember not to make things personal.
     
  14. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    sorry :( i kinda failed again.
     
  15. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I think the show has done a great job
     
  16. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    No problem. It happens. It's easy to get caught up in the emotion of these debates.
     
  17. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    The wut? wasn’t directed at you. I was trying to figure out how @oncafar ‘s post was related to any of those that came before.
     
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  18. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    I feel like I should go away again but I can't find the ban forum.. I'm so sorry. I think I can't be good enough. I'm so sorry to have bothered all of you.
     
  19. Luke_Sparkewalker

    Luke_Sparkewalker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    It really could use saga music. Especially the imperial March.

    I know there’s this law that you can’t use it earlier than ESB, but Lucas used it sparingly in the PT, and even RO touched upon it.

    Without some saga music, in a series that is basically in the saga, it make it come off as another sci fi film that is a cheaper knock off of Star Wars or a fan film that couldn’t get the rights.
    I don’t get it.
     
    DarthKegs, Jediking97 and Slater like this.
  20. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Nah, you're fine. Personally, I would much rather you stay and hang out with us.
     
  21. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
  22. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I rewatched episode 5 for the 4th time today. I have to say that the very end with the beautiful steady cam tracking shot over the sand approaching the Lars homestead folllowed by the perfectly framed shot of young Luke in bed has made me misty eyed on each of my 4 viewings. I’m not even sure why. I know he survives obviously but the way the show hasn’t spent much time with him so far and the way Kenobi has been drawn out so far away and just the quiet innocence of the Lars homestead at night and Luke as a kid just hits me in the feels as the music swells. There’s just this impending sense of dread in those images. The danger lurking feels real and concerning. This family doesn’t deserve it. Luke doesn’t deserve danger and we love him so much as a character that even the idea of someone coming to hurt him as a kid just gets the back up. He’s like a member of our own family at this point. We feel defensive of him. It makes me almost forget I know he’s alive and well later. I think that’s why it works so well on me. My protective instincts for him overwhelm my rational brain that knows he’s okay and allows for suspension of disbelief. I do envy people who watch the prequels and then this and then Rogue One and the OT in that order as tweens. That would be a super dramatic ride.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  23. DannyD

    DannyD Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2017
    I don't disagree that Vader did/does despicable things. In fact, I'm commenting on Obi-Wan's eulogising without mentioning his horrible acts in ANH. The viscerality in the PT/Kenobi definitely drives this omission home.

    But the stories have been told, when they were told, as Lucas wanted them to be told. And in them, badass Vader is redeemable/redeemed, no matter what he's actually done.

    Is Reva worthy of this redemption too? It'll be interesting to see if the next 45-55 mins of Kenobi add any parallels between the evils of Reva and Vader.

    Aside from the fact that Reva is Vader minus a "d".

    Just to lighten the mood. :)
     
  24. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Reva and Vader are nothing alike IMO.

    But then if Vader is redeemable. Then it wouldn't take much for Reva to be redeemable.

    Learn what exactly? Not to kill kids?

    Anakin didn't need to learn anything. This isn't a learning matter really.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  25. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    edit
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022