Mini Series Obi-Wan Kenobi - Part 5 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

One rebel defender carried what looked like a wookiee bowcaster.

Imperials used breach loading howitzers in an attempt to batter down the door.

The pale Grand Inquisitor with liberal application of eye shadow survived. I think everyone is happy about that.

They universally wanted to see him fulfill his life dream of becoming the next revlon guy.

 

Looking through the Son of Dathomir comic again. Maul says “Mother sacrificed much of her own form to resurrect me.”

I took that to mean his being cut in half on Naboo. I guess it’s open to interpretation if he is referring to when he was first cut in half or 12-ish years later when Talzin cleared Maul’s mind and created his first set of android legs.

 

I think Maul coming back is honestly the best example of a well executed bad idea. I think giving Anakin a padawan between AOTC and ROTS is another one (probably a better example, actually).

 

I think Ewan got abit overwhelmed. I really don't think he meant anything by what he said there.

 

Oooo, I always assumed the second. The first is an interesting interpretation... but wait! She did have a physical form years after Naboo?

The thing is, for me it's the same problem as having Vader binding the spirit of the Grand Inquisitor to a Jedi Temple (making him, basically, a Temple Guard again... ahh, the irony). Unless they have access to a "World Between Worlds" kind of device, I don't get how they can intervene in such catastrophic scenarios in time. Vader got the best medical care available soon enough, I get it. The Grand Inquisitor in Kenobi probably got the same.

Maul, on the other hand, got what @Jabba-wocky so aptly called "insults to his physiology" () so severe, that he should have died in seconds. Oh, and if he survives more than a couple of seconds? He is falling down an apparently endless shaft. So I think you can say Maul is like the Invisible Hand: he lost his lower half and is falling to his death pretty fast. While Maul himself could be falling down saying "magnetize!" I have a hard time imagining Talzin took Anakin´s role from afar and gave him another happy landing.

So, Maul became indeed such a great character, that you can either accept his comeback or not. If you do, then sadly many other comebacks (from darksiders that have health care, at least) have precedent. You know, coherence and all of that. Myself, I think the GI hologram could just be an AI who believes itself to be the real one, but with Maul, I have no explanation. It was great to see him back... it's just that his original death was so definitive!

 

Im re-reading the comic. What would have been the newsreel intro for the second episode says:

I forgot what big reveal it was in this arc that Mother Talzin is Darth Maul’s actual mother.

 

Obi-Wan was suppose to be a Padawan of Yoda when you look at Original Trilogy, then we learned it was both Qui-Gon and Yoda.

So it's not so bad that Anakin also had a padawan for a short time.

Talzin didn't know where Maul was. She used Savage to find him. Maul was also trying to reach Talzin from Lotho Minor, but he failed to reach them. If Talzin knew where he was, she would save him long ago. Savage was also important factor on Maul's return as he find him first time.

Talzin sacrficed her powers while fixing Maul's mind and repairing his legs. Maul survived on his own but lost his mind during the process.

 

In the first episode there was that point where Nari evaded the Fifth Brother and it kind of looked like he ran through him. It was as if the Fifth Brother was a hologram.

 

?? When did this happen?
I've watched all of Rebels and I remember what happens, but this confuses me.

 

It happened in comic book.

 

We see on the Clone Wars that Mother Talzin’s way of using the Force - Night Sister Magix - works in very different ways than how Jedi use the Force. Talzin used a lock of Dooku’s hair in a witchcraft or voodoo like ceremony that nearly resulted in the Sith apprentice’s death. Talzin was even able to project herself out of Dooku’s chest to have a conversation. Knowing someone’s physical location doesn’t seem to be a limitation. It seems to work on personal connection not physical distance.

In a later Clone Wars episode Darth Sidious was able to use Dooku’s blood and his connection to Yoda as a his former Padawan to pull Yoda into a very convincing dark side illusion. That power also seemed dependent on Yoda being in a specific Sith temple strong with the dark side on Moraband. But Darth Sidious and Dooku conducted their voodoo like blood ceremony all the way from Coruscant.

We also see Night Sister Magix imbue Savage Opress with increased physical size and strength. It transformed him. As Savage died the effects of the magic dissipated.

It’s not such a huge stretch from the other examples for Mother Talzin to manipulate Maul’s body from a great distance to keep him alive.

As for when Talzin lost her physical form. During the droid army invasion of Dathomir in season 4, when General Grievous strikes Talzin down with a lightsaber (while Dooku far away is dying from Voodoo) Talzin isn’t cut down, instead she vanishes turns into green myst. Could she do that because she already lost her physical form?

This could all loop back to Kenobi.

 

Remember watching that live on the SW stream. If anything I took it as a possibility of a season two.

Heck, if Ewan is down to play more OWK, how can LFL refuse?

 

I am sure Talzin didn't know where Maul was, so she couldn't help him to survive. Only she created an amulet to find him, but couldn't tell where Maul was.



If she gave her power to Maul first time when Maul was injured, then she would know the exact location of Maul. Because she also gave power to Savage, and she knew where Savage's exact location was but she didn't know where Maul was, needed Savage searching him with an amulet.

 

Come on, Mother Talzin did NOTHING when Maul was cut in half on Naboo.
That would have made her the most powerful Force user in the history of the GFFA.
To be able to use the Force to preserve life on a different planet from a distance?
No, absolutely no way. The quote is referring to when she "fixed" him a few years later.

 

[QUOTE="Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid, post: 58027375, member: 1382405"
We see on the Clone Wars that Mother Talzin’s way of using the Force - Night Sister Magix - works in very different ways than how Jedi use the Force. Talzin used a lock of Dooku’s hair in a witchcraft or voodoo like ceremony that nearly resulted in the Sith apprentice’s death. Talzin was even able to project herself out of Dooku’s chest to have a conversation. Knowing someone’s physical location doesn’t seem to be a limitation. It seems to work on personal connection not physical distance.
[/QUOTE]

Do you understand why this is ridiculous? Literally any character could have someone offscreen a trillion miles away on another planet that does "magic" that saves them/makes them invincible, with the audience only finding out after the fact. What is the limitation on this?

 

NOTHING in all caps is a bold statement I can’t agree with. I don’t think Maul was powerful enough on his own. I’m not saying Talzin saved Maul totally on her own. I believe it was a combination of Maul’s own powers and Sith training plus an added push provided by Talzin from afar. It could be at the very least just the fact Maul could tap into Night Sister Magicks thanks to his bond with Talzin.

I like this because it makes what Maul did specially unique to him. Dooku couldn’t have cheated death that way or any other character.

No. I think it is just the opposite. Talzin had the potential to be a Darth Sidious level threat. Maul is her son. That created a very special connection and unique situation that allowed her magick to work in this over sized way. This ability should be limited to just this instance. Just this bond. Limited to just Maul and his mother.

I’m saying no other character should have this happen. And as the Son of Dathomire comic says on the last page

With Talzin gone Maul is no longer a threat for the Sith. Without that connection Maul’s potential is reduced. The limitation is having a special familiar bond and great powers.


******

Having just re-read Son of Dathomire it’s interesting how the use of Dooku, Maul, General Grevious, Mother Talzin and Darth Sidious feels like the Inquisitors on Kenobi. Using anger and jealousy as motivation. Pitting allies against each other and using trickery through shifting allegnces.

Then there is the mother and son Force connection that seems to enable special power for Maul and Talzin reminiscent of Palpatine and Rey’s connection in The Rise Of Skywalker. Maybe it’s even reminiscent of the dyad.

I really hope we get this story in animated form someday. It’s one of the best looks we have at the Sith in action.

 

We probably would have if Disney hadn't cancelled TCW.

 

If you think that's ridiculous, then Original Trilogy is ridiculous too according to you as they can use the Force from a very long distance.





I don't think anyone should search logic in ''science fiction'' and ''fantasy'' series. Because there is no limitation, that's why its ''science fiction'' after all.

The director basically compared Maul's survival with Vader's survival on Mustafar. So, it's similar, they didn't need outside help to survive. However they needed outside help to regain their full physical and mental health. Sidious helped Vader shortly after, so Vader didn't lose his mental health. While Maul was in too deep inside of the dark side to survive for nearly 11 years, he lost his mental health because of it, and Talzin needed to sacrifice her own power to fix Maul's mind.

''At the Battle of Naboo, Obi-Wan Kenobi took advantage of Darth Maul's overconfidence to launch a surprise attack that left Maul cut in two and plummeting down into a reactor pit. However, Maul's anger, hatred and even the pain he was in were focused through the dark side, and the Sith was able to survive.''

---Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File Remake #024 (2014)

Dave Filoni: ''The Force is what holding his (Maul's) body together. So Vader holds on to life at the edge of the lava flow, because he is such a condemned for Obi-Wan, such an anger for whose happens in his life. And that same type of focus, hatred what sustains Maul.''

---Source: Star Wars Celebration Clone Wars Season Five Premiere (2012)

If you noticed, there is no mention of Talzin.

 

In that last quote, why is Filoni talking like someone who struggles with English?

 

Lol.



Check yourself, maybe I should correct it.

 

Having just re-read the comic - I’m struck by how ambitious these four episodes would have been in scope. I.E. expensive to make. Each features a huge battle with armies and spaceships. I also understand this story takes place between part 1 and 2 of the Ventress arc when Master Vos has turned to the dark side. Add his character into the mix of changing allegiances. And that would further connect Son of Dathomire and the Kenobi series.

That arc could have been the high point of the series in terms of scale and cost. Supposedly season 4 and 5 of the Clone Wars cost the same amount per minute as Game of Thrones did at the same time.

That quote is from 2012 - before Son of Dathomir was released. It doesn’t overrule Maul surviving by a combination of his own power plus his special connection with Talzin.

 

The difference being, that both of those things happen via a holocall.
It doesn't negate the distance, so there is a certain degree of ridiculousness indeed, but it does change it a bit.
How and why would Mother Talzin even know where Maul is and how to save him?

Well the capital letters were for tonal emphasis, not for conviction
It's just that there is no reason why Mother Talzin would have intervened on Naboo. It is not supported by anything.

He is referring to the process of "resurrection" we saw in The Clone Wars, where Mother Talzin performed that weird ritual and brought him back to his old self, albeit with mechanical legs.

 

What you are saying is not accurate because Talzin's weakness started after Maul's resurrection on Dathomir during the Clone Wars. Talzin didn't need a sacrifice like Dooku to regain her powers back before only after Maul's return in the Clone Wars she lost power.

So, Talzin sacrificing her power for Maul, happens when she fixed Maul's mind and repaired his legs with her power. Before, she didn't even know where Maul was. To use the Force or her magick to work from a planet to another planet, she at least needs to know where her target is. She didn't know which is why she made an amulet for Savage, so Savage can find it via searching the galaxy. Otherwise she would simply told Savage that Maul was in Lotho Minor, she didn't say that. Because if she helped Maul, she would know where he was. Since she helped Savage, she knew where Savage was all the time, she told Kenobi that Savage was in Toydaria.

 

There is an important difference between using a power over great distance and reversing fatal injuries in a split second. The latter is essentially a reversing death. Contrary to your last statement, this is in fact a barrier most stories don't cross, if only because then no one ever dies. The big caveat here is comic books, which also tend to have this problem of idiotic resurrections. It's also true that most fiction stories--Star Wars included either state or imply some rules around what is and is not possible to do. Up until this Darth Maul thing, physically un-killing someone's body was firmly in the "not possible" category, which is the basis of this whole discussion/complaint.

 

WHERE'S WADE?!?!?!?!

Somehow Wade didn't return.