Mini Series Official "Obi-Wan Kenobi" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Yes, I don't see all the negativity you claim. Overall I'd say the reception of OWK has been fairly positive in here.

 

Go into the Sequel threads. It's so toxic it will melt you like a vat of Judge Doom's dip.

As for this thread; we've litterally spent, what, two days and multipule pages arguing over how bad the show becuase it either did'nt adequetly explain how Reva (allegedly) knew the truth about Luke's parantage or becuase it (evidently) makes no sense that she would want to get back at Obi-Wan? And every time the people who disagree with that narrative speak up they get accused of being the problem (I mean, such an accusation is literally what started this specific conversation between us)

 

In one forum I'm in, everyone loved it.

 

You keep being so hyperbolic !
Most of those who were complaining weren't making general negative statements about the show as a whole, they were criticing a specific element of the plot that is very open to criticisms.

 

And I suppose everyone who used the "bad writing" claim was being hyperbolic as well?

And it's not one specific element; every single episode of the show people here have found at least one thing to complain about.

 

Preposterous. Where is the evidence for this?

 

Hell, a huge-ass Discord server that I'm on also loved it.

I mean, there were no problems there as well.

...Oh God, we're talking about the YouTube Star Wars "fandom," aren't we?

 

Yes, I absolutely believe that in every single episode there is at the very least one thing to complain about, but if this is triggering for you, I'll have to agree with you that it would be best for you to take a break from the forum, recharge your energies, and feel much better afterwards.

 

The show has to stand on its own. In other words, a newcomer has to be able to understand the plot using only info from the show. It is never stated that Luke's last name is Skywalker. Therefore, we cannot conclude that Reva has acquired that info.

As for the dialogue in her last scene: She says she couldn't do it and has therefore failed Vader's victims. That must be viewed in the context that this is the first time she speaks to Obi-Wan since she tried to kill Vader on Jabiim. They planned that together and Obi-Wan tried to distract Vader so she could kill him. That failed. She wasn't strong or clever enough. She couldn't do it.
That is what she's referring to. He killed them and she couldn't kill him.

Then Obi-Wan shifts the focus to her victory over the dark side on Tatooine, which she seemingly hadn't realized the significance of.

 

Overall, I enjoyed it.

I'm sure I'll elaborate on my thoughts as we go along, but I really enjoyed this show, especially as a fan of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Hell, I always preferred Obi-Wan over Anakin growing up, even though everyone seemed to whine about how "Anakin was treated bad and stuff by the Council or the Jedi or Obi-Wan or Yoda or whoever."

But I like the fact that Anakin's fall is not supposed to be sympathetic.

That, and I just like Obi-Wan, period.

 

I really love that Anakin explicitly accepted the responsibility for his fall in the OWK finale. Pulls the rug out from under the “OWK was a terrible teacher and is responsible” argument.

 

Are you...are you joking?

It's more then just youtube; the toxicity is a *big* issue across the internet (and, sadly, in real life as well).

It's not triggering for me, it's just really weird; I could by several episodes, but all of them? Why?

Okay. See, this kind of thing really makes me made; I don't know why it happens so often but I don't like stressing the same point multipule times and getting ingored.

I don't have an issue with criticism, and I even have things (which I have brought up in this thread) with the show that I criticise myself

I was'nt trying to be condescending, that's just geniunly how it looks; like I said the 3sm - how can every. single. episode have problems?

Like, there have been multipule times were people will bring up a complaint or point to a plot hole and I explained things out pretty clearly using canon information. I tried to be polite about it too at first, but I started to have to do it multuple times it good fustrating.

Perfect examples of this are when people were asserting "they made Vader to strong!!!!" and I provided a pretty extensive list of canon references from prior works showing that, if anything, he actually, factually underperforms feat wise in this show. Nobody cared, they just kept claiming "he's too strong!" and some people even outright dismissed my sources becuase they did'nt care about them. How am I supposed to take complaints seriusly in light of stuff like that? Becuase it just makes it look like the complaints are being made to complain when the complainers dismiss/ingore evidence that disproves their point.

I'm not trying to. It's just hard to seperate legitimate criticism from bad faith criticism. I can only go on what it looks like, and a lot of the complaints I've seen are the same I've seen elsewhere on other sites from people who most definantly think "Disney bad!"

*sigh*

This is fair. I don't mean to attack people but I really reached the end of my limit today (I have other discussions related to Star Wars and other francises going on currently with people who are legitimately toxic that probobly contributed to that). I don't want to degenerate others opinions or make anyone feel like they can't criticise something, it's just hard when I came her to have a discussion of the show and the thread has seemed to get increasingly more criticial towards the show and closer and closer in tone to the Sequel threads (which is an enviorment I'm desperate to avoid.).

Also, to be totally honest, it makes me start to feel crazy when I see so much heavy criticism. Am I wrong? Is it bad? Do the issues I don't see exist and I'm just too stupid or forgiving to see them? I was watching Clone Wars before I came upstairs and, even though I was enjoying it, I kept thinking "is it bad I enjoy this when I'm thirty and the writing is clearly aimed at a younger audience?"

But how can I have discussions when the counterpoints I bring up and dismissed or even ingored? I want to discuss Star Wars - I came to this very thread becuase I wanted to discuss the show - but it constantly seems like basically goes...

• Complaint is made.
• Issue behind complaint is explained.
• I (or whoever gave the explaination) is argued agianst in an attempt to disprove
• Rinse and repeat.

Like, between that, the frequent use of "bad writing" as an argument and how a lot of you guys phrase your arguments (the opinion as fact" manner, which is something I've always had trouble with here) it makes it seem a lot of the times like you think the perception of myself and others is not valid.

Anyway, I'm going to take a break for a while. I've clearly gotten myself into a really unhealthy headspace mentally and emotionally and I've let myself get so defensive and paranoid that I'm lashing out unfairly at other people. To all you, I'm really sorry about that.

 

So... nothing?

 

@Arawn_Fenn look, I'm taking a break after this but I really don't know how to respond to what your trying to argue.

Never once are we told the Lars or Luke keep his relation to Anakin secret (and it's not like they had any reason to - they all thought he was dead). It's never been presented as a secret, and the knowledge would be super easy for anyone to gain (both on purpose or accidently) even if they were trying to keep it a secret.

 

Owen claims outright that the boy is his own flesh and blood.

 

I avoided all spoilers and waited until all 6 Episodes were done and watched it as one long movie. I loved every single episode and this is the true Sequel to "Revenge of the Sith" and Prequel to "A New Hope". This series also made me love "Sith" even more than I already did. Amazing job from everyone involved. From the Little Leia storyline to Reva connection to the Jedi Temple and "Revenge of the Sith". Just everything was so good. I didn't expect much Luke because his interactions with Ben were minimal. It was the Leia situation I needed more understanding with there relationship. It was like I didn't know how much I needed Little Leia's story until I saw it and now it's so important to "A New Hope". I just loved how it showed Obi had given up on the Jedi Order. He was basically on the run for decades if you think about it. But protecting Leia and Luke gave him Hope again. It was just a great arc. Again if this was on the Big Screen it would of been the perfect sequel to "Revenge of the Sith".

 

Too bad Disney was still butthurt over Solo.

 

My thoughts exactly. What is it with Star Wars these days and some fans being so sensitive to any ounce of criticism? Heaven forbid people have opinions.

I'd say that the fact that the fanbase is so divided is exactly why OBK is pretty much TLJ of the the TV shows to this point.

I'm still very much in the middle with a 5 out of 10. There are parts of the show that I liked but other parts that make absolutely no sense in the story telling that just annoy the hell out of me. But it is what it is. For me, I like to consider the original 6 movies as the only true canon and anything Disney puts out is the Disney EU. It works for me and I can enjoy the Disney stuff better that way.

 

There are some nice Reva moments in episode 1 that play better after episodes 5 & 6.

1. The line she says to Owen about protecting his family is a great foreshadowing moment.

2. Her speech to the townspeople about how the Jedi abandoned you and would not protect you is very personal now. It’s the mindset she’s in.

3. Her obsession with Kenobi feels not only to try and get Vader but also because she’s also mad at his master.

 

I wanted to come back in real quick and clear the air on some things.

It's not that - at least speaking for myself - that people are sensative to criticism and opposed to other people having opinions, it's that the fandom has gotten so toxic and hostile that people have reach their breaking points and it's become incrediably hard to seperate geniune criticism from that which is not.

That's not fair to those who do have geniune criticism, and it was'nt okay for me to get so bent out of shape earlier; I let bad experiences (her and elsewhere) and other - worse and geniunly toxic - exchanges today outside of this forum color my attitude and I let my nerosis get the better of me. That's on me and, again, I apologize. I'm going to really try better about biting my tongue and letting criticism go unchallanged, and just go with the defualt thought that it's meant in good faith. And, for the sake of good faith, tommorow I will make a comprehensive list of the criticisms *I* have for the show.

I just hope, in turn, you don't begrude people like me who don't see the same issues that you guys do.

He does'nt; Reva comments that he really loves Luke "like he is your own", and Owen replies by saying "he is my own."

"flesh and blood" is never uttered.

I'd argue that Kylo already was the main villain from the start; Snoke was his superior, but he was'nt a main character like Kylo and he was'nt the antagonist to the heroes.

But yes, that is what I'm saying; Kylo kills Snoke and takes his place as the leader of the FO, and we know what the original plan was going forward becuase the script for DTOF is public record so it's not really up for debate that Kylo was stepping into the void left by Snoke (for lack of a better word TLJ was just getting ride of a Kylo-servicing plot device that had fufilled it's purpose)

 

Are you suggesting Kylo would be the main villain? Otherwise, he left a pretty big void.

 

So you're saying you don't know who she was taking revenge against. That's the point. The culmination of her whole arc of this show gets to its grand conclusion & you can't even say why she was about to kill Luke! Except that it was to get revenge against...someone. That's a failure of storytelling. This isn't the end of 2001: ASO, or the end of Inception where the top wobbles. It's not some intriguing conundrum to leave open ended, for us all to ponder the fascinating question of who she was acting against. And in doing so we find a deeper meaning about the show, life & the universe. This is just an amateurish story blunder in a simplistic tv show. It was their job to make clear her motivation during the dramatic climax of her character arc.

Exactly! Of course this is what they were going for. But look at how badly they depicted it. Even the facts as you laid out have major holes, & so people are disputing this obvious take on things. Reva could've asked that guy about Owen, & he could have said that he lives 80 miles that way with his nephew. So that's why she makes the remark about loving him "as if he's your own", & she's just there to kill some rando Force kid. Which is stupid, but they have allowed that speculation by how poorly they told their story. I'm sure somewhere, if they haven't already, they will clarify that it's supposed to be exactly as you describe. Then their failure will be confirmed. All of these alternate takes on it stand as evidence of how far they missed the mark in telling that story.

 

I don't know if your misunderstanding me or if I'm not being clear, but no, I'm not saying that.

As I've said several times now (including in the post you qouted) that I am of the opinion she was going after Luke to get back at Obi-Wan.

Okay.

All I can say is that I'm sorry you feel that way. But I don't agree. Is that alright? I would hope that you consider my opinion and perspective equally as valid as yours, but if not that's fine. I really, honestly don't want to argue and fight anymore.

Again, I am sorry you feel that way. I hope the next Star Wars story will be more to your tastes. I just hope you don't begrudge those of use who don't share your perspective on the show and it's writing.

 

Yes you are. You're saying there are 2 possibilities, & your guess is to lean more towards one of them. Therefore you don't know, bcs the show doesn't make it clear. Obviously it's something that should be clear. Where is the value in having some people think she was getting revenge on Anakin, while another group say it's Kenobi?