ST Darth Plagueis in IX

And you'll think this will help close the loop on the Skywalker story? That the whole legacy and all the good that the Skywalkers have done for the galaxy are thanks to an evil Sith Lord?

 

That and throwing a new Big Bad or a returning big bad would screw up the storytelling. They already set up Ren to be the big bad. Throwing Snoke back in or adding Darth Plaguies would be a waste of time. If I were just a casual fan I would be confused and irritated if Snoke just came back and said Ha! I fooled you! If Plaguies just appeared out of nowhere I would be like who the he'll is this guy? If one of my friends explained it I would say OK they are pulling some dude mentioned in a movie that came out 15 years ago? Where has he been this whole time? Oh they don't have time to explain that, this movie is only 2 and half hours long but there is a comic coming out about it. Ok...I'm not going to read that. I thought Kylo Ren was the bad guy and I'm already invested in his story, I'm confused now. Well, this movie is for the hardcore fans who know who Plagueis is. Potential New Generation of Star Wars Fans: The trilogy was ok until the last movie. It was really confusing and seemed to go in a bunch of different directions. I thought it was a good story till they went in a whole different direction at the end. Who the he'll is Darth Plaguies? I watched an old star wars movie and they mentioned him once but the cool bad guy from that movie seemed to have killed him.

 

I agree. Ren's getting outted from being supreme leader probably half way through the film by hux there already foreshadowing his coup by not having the rest of the first order navy get told that the resistance is still around , Ren is supreme leader and snoke is dead ( poe #31) . I agree having Snoke re appear and Plagueis come out of no where would undermine both Hux and Ren's character arcs and make the 6 previous movies pointless cause lol Plagueis Created Anakin , Everything the sky walkers did for the universe is 10 times more shaded in darkness cause an evil **** created the most famous member

 

No, I’m certain it’s the story they wanted to tell and nothing to do with fan recognition. If they wanted to include Plagueis they would have without regard or concern for fans remembering who he was or whence he came. It’s simply not a problem. It’s not the story they chose to tell. That’s it.

Kylo Ren is more an inversion of Luke than a comparison to Vader, except he chose to kill the father whereas Luke refused to do so. I’m not really sold on Kylo being an effective villain or big bad in the ST. He really isn’t a credible threat, i.e., an emotive child-man in a mask. Hopefully they conjure something of a credible threat from the Unknown Regions.


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But it wasn't the story they wanted to tell. It's blatantly obvious with the force awakens that Snoke is a new character.....that's why his name is Snoke. That's why they said there were no Sith in the movie. That's why why they made Ren the Supreme Leader. That's why Daisy Ridley among others had no idea who Plagueis was. It was a fan theory that went out of control. People made posters for 7 with Plaguies on them more than a year before it came out. Nobody even had the slightest idea what the plot was about or even who the characters were. Headconnon got the best of everyone. So far the story is about Rey's journey to becoming a Jedi and Ren's rise to becoming Supreme Leader. The only questions left unanswered is how Ren was turned and if he'll be redeemed. There is already enough of a story to tell with that. Adding a new Big Bad guy to much in the last movie. If Ren turns good Hux will become the main villain because he is already part of the story.

 

The issue imo and this is speaking with various fans is that Kylo, despite him taking out Snoke, is just not a menacing threat. There is no interest in seeing the story of Rey and Ren play out...its a cheap version of what we have known from the past.

Fitting DP in now is tough....I was a fan of him being Snoke but it would be hard to give him the time in 9 needed w/o taking from the rest of story, no matter how bad it is. Now we have Isaac telling 9 will have improved dialogue??? The SPIN has already started.

RJ really dug a hole imo.....there were so many items teed up by JJ and lil Johnson ignored them.

 

Oscar said improvised, not improved.

 

Kylo Ren or General Hux the villain? Ooh, that won't do at all. Bested Ben and Pasty Hugs is not going to cut it. What challenge to our heroes who are only as heroic as the threat personified by the big bad.

There's the personal story between characters, but what are the stakes and the consequences in this trilogy? It all seems rather underwhelming.

If this is what Lucasfilm plans on presenting us in IX, then they really screwed the pooch on the ST.

I wonder who Richard Grant is playing?

Didn't Lucasfilm fire Lord and Miller for too much improvisation?

 

It will have to do cause there not going to pull a random literal who villain to the general audience in the last episode of the Skywalker saga (for now )

if u don't know the stakes or Consequences u haven't been paying attention

Yes it is what They are planing on Presenting us in IX

I wonder too but he probably won't be important so don't make OUTlandish theories about who it could be

They were Improvising and making it a frecking comedy. From what we know J.J's taking the Approach which the OT did which was The actors playing the acts but saying more natural dialogue then what was written by Lucas

 

Well put.

Ren will be an adequate or possibly even good or great main villain if he is executed well in 9. He was set up for 2 movies to be just that, and it would be an epic fail to pull the rug out at this point and shoehorn a dead villain in that has never had any real space in the story (the on-film saga I mean). That would be ridiculous.

JJ said he would tie the saga together, he didn't say pre-saga. There is quite a lot to pull together over 9 movies; throwing in a new main villain at this point would just strip away valuable time to finish the story with.​

 

With the ST, there’s a vague sense but there’s little potency to an overt threat. Kylo is isolated. He’s weak without Rey. Hux is a rabid cur. A snake. He’s a worm-tongue.

I suppose Kylo might become exceptionally powerful between VIII and IX. But what power might he have? Abilities some may consider to be unnatural?

We know he’s insecure. Which is cool, I mean, I like that kind of complex, relatable trait in a character, but we already know that he fears he’ll never be as powerful as Darth Vader. Rey has bested him twice, fooled by Skywalker and it seems clear that he feels he needs her more than she needs him. Besides, I’m sure Rey is training, so what danger does he pose to her?

Aside from the personal internal conflict between these characters, what’s the big externalities that threaten both of them? What are the broader implications? Is it Kylo’s self-destruction? We know one way or another his fate will be redemption, death or both. Do we believe any of this will come at the hands of Rey? Or Finn? Will Kylo kill himself? Maybe as a sacrifice for good or just plain self-destruction. I cannot envision the latter. Will Rey try to help him again. If Kylo turns, who will he turn from? Hux? Please...He’d kill Hux in an instant.

In short I don’t think Kylo meant to play the part of a big bad archetype. He’s a complicated character who has a range of human strength and frailty. More like Luke’s inversion than Vader. As Luke was susceptible to the dark, Kylo to the light. The anti-hero journey. Vader was an archetype who became much more nuanced as father as Palpatine replaced him as the pure evil archetype.

Palpatine was hinted at and slowly revealed over the course of the OT, only making his real appearance in the last episode. A movie is plenty of time to introduce a new villain character. Not saying they will, but if they wanted to it wouldn’t be impossible, nor stupid or confusing as some insist.


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Hux is more of a threat then u think he's got the navy wondering who the **** is in charge Poe had to break it to some of them that their supreme leader was dead. Hux can turn the rest of the first order against Ren.

U say he's Worm Tongued lets look at another Franchise with a Worm Tongue. Harry Potter, u know Peter Pettigrew was probably the third most important member of the death eaters behind Nagini and Lucius. Its Peter's Flesh , Harry's blood, Nagini's Venom/Milk and unicorn blood that brings Voldermort back .

He Also was the one that lead Voldermort to the Potter's in the first place. Don't disregard The ones who seem to be the but of the Joke.

 

Yes, I'd love that - but it's not going to happen

 

Yes yes and yes!!!! Because this is pre Phantom Menace.... After listening to the Darth Plagueis book The Phantom Menace as a whole different meaning for me now I understand better and actually what was going on..... Personally I think they could possibly get a Trilogy out of it..... But if we could get one good solid movie on it it would be wonderful....

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The problem with that is that the Darth Plagueis novel is not considered canon by Lucasfilm, so therefore they can do whatever they want with him (if they ever want to do something with him at all).

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I’m more interested in Max Rebo’s band than Plagueis. Where are they now?

 

I'm still holding out hope for a hidden dark side user in the shadows that ties all 3 trilogies together.I do understand that Kylo has been set up to be the emperor character,but I still hope something else surfaces.

 

It seems to me Kylo is a character meant to evoke our empathy and not a pure evil villain. At this point, if they do go with dark sider, I think Palpatine makes the most sense, a kind of Voldemort character within the entire saga.

 

I wonder if in the new canon Bane and Plagueis were master and apprentice?

 

They’ve included Bane and The Clone Wars toyed with Revan. Kylo’s mask evokes Revan’s. It certainly shows movement in solidifying many favorites among the EU fandom. What they’ve done with Thrawn is also interesting as placating all the old EU fans to some degree. Some here mentioned Syfo-Dyas and even he was given some air to breath in TCW. With all of that it’s interesting to consider Plagueis has never come up and part of that is protecting Sheev. I take that back, the Luceno novel on Tarkin devotes a line or two to Plagueis.

I still like the name Darth Tenebrous and a Bith Darth to boot!


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We might yet find out in IX if they’re still the house band for Rotta.


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I think you're right. With Snoke gone, the chances of Palpatine returning somehow and having been still pulling the strings from behind the current seems likely.

 

I don't think so. Plagueis lived 900 to 1000 years after Bane.

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Are people really hoping for a Palpatine return?

 

Not really hoping, but I see the appeal. He could end up being the big bad in all 3 trilogies.