ST Force Projection, and the impact it could have on Episode IX

Woah, yes I agree. Not to get too much into TLJ, but Leia and Kylo meeting face to face on Crait makes a lot more sense than Kylo and Luke. Especially with their set up in earlier in the film where Kylo can't bring himself to pull the trigger on dear old mom. Shame we didn't get that and got Force Projection Luke stalling Kylo then dying when Leia was there on the planet and could have accomplished the same thing. While Leia walks out to talk to Kylo, Kylo stops the laser blasts and meets her out on the battle field. They argue. She pleads. He can't kill her like he killed Han. Hux ruins the moment by firing on them both, they take cover in the trench as all out war breaks out. Leia's signal has gone out to everyone, no one answers as 3PO, Poe and others wait for response, suddenly the comlink crackles with static...a garbled voice seeps through the speaker finally "RED FIVE, STANDING BY." It's Luke, he'd raised the X-wing, he's back! Luke shoots down some TIEs and then takes out the big canon as the walker approach the base. Rey and Chewie get shot by a TIE and have to crash land the Falcon in the mountainside. Leia becons for her son to escape with her, but he senses Rey and grows angry, going after her to fight, etc...Rey and Kylo duel on the mountainside while Luke telepathically calls to Leia and helps guide her the Rebels through the caves to escape....

All that to say, some kind of connection between Leia and Kylo has to be made in IX. How will they do it? Not sure, but it is very very important. I don't believe the climax can just be Kylo and Rey again. I think Leia has to factor in somehow. TFA and TLJ have set it up that way. Now IX has to deliver on that set up, but with JJ's hands tied.

 

I personally don't see Force projections coming back in Episode IX. The concept was a large part of TLJ but the execution was sloppy and I see no need to revisit it in the ST.

 

JJ will not bring back Force Projection as it was to controversial & he going to play it more safe with EP9............

 

I didn't have a problem with Luke's force projection at all. I of course would've personally preferred that he was actually there on Crait, but IMO the projection still exemplified Luke's immense power. However I just don't think they'll continue to use that concept in IX. I'm sure we'll see something else in terms of "Force-usage surprises." Every film has one-and IMO that was the big one for TLJ. I'm actually kind of excited to see what IX has.

 

I have a feeling we will find out Rey was trained some by someone as a child and made to forget using the force somehow because they needed her to stay hidden from Snoke.

 

@lawton
If that's the case then it might as well be Luke who trained her and Kerri Russell who took her when Ben turned to the Dark Side. More likely is she has never had any connection to a Force user prior to bumping into Kylo, it just doesn't hold with the "nobody" scenario they've created.

@Darth Geezy
Force projection should be the last resort for a Jedi, the person is committing suicide by using it. I don't see why someone would commit suicide just to put false memories into Rey's mind.

 

If we see force projection again it could be that we see Snoke doing it or find out he was doing it in TLJ.

 

If it did happen I think it would be explained Luke did some training with her and Yoda used the force to make them suppress the memory of it.

 

I’m thinking there’s going to be a thousand person Jedi army ready to take on the FO and the FO will have every one of their ships do the Holdo maneuver into the Jedi army but it’ll turn out that all the Jedi were Force projecting! Then it will seem that the entire Jedi army drops dead because of all the projecting but they didn’t really drop dead. Really they all teleported somewhere.

 

I agree the projections won't come back (it's already been done) but how was it sloppy? Luke dying doesn't make it sloppy.

 

That's not what I meant. The whole concept with Kylo and Rey's mind link (not a true projection) and the idea that Snoke may have been behind it didn't sync well with Luke's act and subsequent death. It was like the film wanted to compare them while saying they weren't the same. I think the idea was to set up Luke's act but I felt it stood better despite the setup and not because of it. Just my take on the events in the film, not a criticism of the idea of projection itself or Luke's projecting. I felt that it was Rian trying to have his cake and eat it too and it came off as sloppy IMO. I am totally fine with the idea that it kills the user as it is essentially a living person doing what a Force ghost would normally be doing.

 

Interestingly when Luke "touches" Leia on Crait I always took it to be at that moment she realised he wasn't really there as she couldn't touch him. She has the knowing realisation he is using the Force to help them, but keeps it to herself. Similarly she can feel that the dice aren't really there, as does Kylo when he "picks them up".

That was my interpretation anyway.

I also didn't have any issues with Force projection Luke, but to kill him off from it in Episode VIII, one episode before the end, was completely unnecessary and not good from a fan perspective - unless they did have a grander plan going forward. Unfortunately I think Rian was just trying for a controversial twist and it back fired with the audience perception. Hope I am wrong and they did plan more to it, and more reason for Luke's death.

 

How does it not sync well?
I would say it is the complete opposite. The link between Ben and Rey serves a specific purpose and helps setting up the issue Luke would face while doing so. The movie makes it clear that these things are not the same, while also stating that actually projecting yourself elsewhere like that will kill you. That couldn't have been a more fitting setup. I just don't see anything in there that would lead me to the conclusion that Rian Johnson tried to have his cake and eat it to.

I don't see any reason to assume that any writer tries to go for a controversial twist for the sake of going for a controversial twist. That's not really how writers work, it sounds more like a conspiracy theory only fans could think of. In this case, the movie seems to make it rather obvious why it goes that way. And it is indeed a very good solution to prevent running into the issue that Luke physically being there would cause. The alternative option would have been for Kylo Ren to kill Luke in the same way Vader killed Obi Wan, which is hardly more crowd-pleasing than Luke tricking him and going on his own terms. Not to mention that you would have had the issue of how Luke got there in the first place.


I don't see much of a reason why it would appear in IX though. Just because something happened in a movie, doesn't mean that we would see it again and again in the future. Just like the Holdo maneuver, it is only useful under very specific circumstances. I mean, just because Obi Wan decided to let himself get killed by Vader doesn't mean that this is something Jedi should generally do as well. These things are last-ditch, hail mary attempts to save the day, not something you actually benefit from personally. It is best to avoid ever getting into such a situation.

 

Just giving my opinion, I think I explained what I meant well enough. You thought it worked and I thought it was a boring setup that did little for the end of the film. The Force Skype sessions would've been fine if Rian actually gave us more info beyond "oh, Snoke said he did this."

 

Maybe it kills Jedi but not necessarily a powerful darkside user.

The darkside of the force is the pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

 

I bet JJ completely ignores the power.

If not, maybe Kylo uses it to defeat Rey. He shows her her parents or something, and then beats her for once, to open the film.

 

Kylo says it's the effort that kills not any connection to the Light Side, it's not like Sith lightening which is more about inflicting pain on someone.

 

Rey and Kylo communicating seems to me like a rudimentary version of what Luke does... at first. When Kylo suddenly appears to be sitting in the hut on Ahch-To, he’s (inadvertently) moved on to the more advanced Force projection technique that Luke utilizes.
The difference is that Kylo only does it for a few seconds, while Luke keeps projecting for a long while.

It’s possible that Kylo/Ben will use that ability to save the day in EpIX at the cost of his own life. It would be unimaginative in a way, since it would be a rehash of Anakin’s passing, but it would also be a pretty neat payoff for his development in TLJ and sort of show him pay some respect to Luke on a symbolic level.

...or maybe he’ll use the trick for selfish ends only to end up dying because Hux stabs him in the back while he’s projecting?

 

I know it was definitely a crowd-pleasing moment in TLJ when it was revealed what Luke was doing (the theater I was in pretty much erupted with applause when the film cut to Luke on Ach-To after his showdown with Kylo), but I still don't really imagine them using it again. Or, at least, certainly not to the extent that it was used in TLJ. I feel like it served its purpose, and using it again would make Luke's use of it seem less significant.

 

I think it is almost certain we will get 1 (maybe 2) force skype scenes between rey and kylo in the first act. Probably to re-establish how they feel about each other after the time skip and the fact that they're still "connected". I'm surprised so many think otherwise

 

Does force projection always lead to death?

Was Luke's death just down to the extreme mental energy it took to decieve Kylo on Crait, plus the fact he is a physically aging Jedi?

If for instance a Jedi just wanted to Force Project himself into a room or on to a ship would this lead to death too?

 

We don't know but judging by what Kylo said, I would say yes.

 

Never seen again just like force speed.

 

Something tells me Bendu could probably have force projected for a while without dying after that display of his.

 

Bendu was so much more connected to the Force than any Jedi, did it make him more powerful? It would seem so, I think the key to what a Dark Sider can do compared to a Light Sider has never fully been explored and leaves much of this to speculation.