ST Kylo Ren's Future/Fate. Death/Redemption/Other?

For the same reasons some fans here seem to be against Kylo dying. Cause he is the last Skywalker and some fans refuse to accept the lineage ending.

 

Really the lineage doesn't need to end. there is no reason to end the lineage beyond the idea that you need to kill off the linage in order to end the saga, or even the idea that is a good way to even end a 9 movie series.

I just fail to see how killing the linage off would be this amazing conclusion to a 9 movie series. the message would be ill-fitting.

 

This seems all very Dark Empire II...

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Empatojayos_Brand

 

I think it`s a bummer to end the lineage but if my choice is between Kylo/"Ben" continuing it or it ending, I`m all for it ending. I would want nothing that comes from this guy. So until they reveal a hidden Skywalker, the lineage has ended for me. Which is tragic but it is where the new movies left me.

 

Plus, it is just so similar to other legends such as King Arthur, or even real life examples, like the Roman Empire. In the latter, some maginificent emperors, like Vespasian, were succeeded by equally great emperors from the same lineage (in this case Titus, son of Vespasian) just for the lineage to end with the third generation (Domitian was a tyrant, hated by Rome in the same way Nero ended up).

This stuff has happened constanting over history, it just feels normal that it could happen in the GFFA.

As I just said, look at the arguments some fans use to defend Kylo surviving. Simply that there is no reason to end the lineage and that the ending would be depressing.

 

For me personally, there are too many relevant real world parallels with Kylo's portrayal... Kylo's entitled attitude, where Rey is treated as an object who has no value except what for what he gives her; the idea that Kylo's feelings matter more than everyone around him; on a meta level, the idea that Rey cannot hold the role of protagonist on her own and must suddenly share it with Kylo. It's eerily relatable to the world we live in. This resurrection idea just plays into the idea further. "I apologize for using my position of power to sexually harass women and getting them fired when they didn't like it. Did you hear me, I apologized? I deserve to run/star in this show now." Kylo's been offered an out twice now, and he rejected it both times. How many second chances does Kylo get? And this is not about redemption. It's about him being rewarded (with resurrection) for FINALLY making the right choice.

 

But if Kylo doesn`t do it for you (general you, here), the ending already IS depressing. Redeeming/resurrecting or in any way honoring him just makes it more depressing in that case. A "happy" ending being brought about by Kylo only works if you have some level of positive investment in the guy now.

Pinning the ending of a generational Saga on just one character is always tricky. Who says you`re gonna luck out and everyone will enjoy them? But they did it and responses are mixed so at this point, they will simply have to hope that the movie will fall in with the bigger crowd among fans. With the general audience being the biggest crowd of any movie, I honestly think they could care less overall. Kill him, don`t kill him, redeem him or don`t. As long as you have some happy Rebellion celebration at the end with Rey waving a lightsaber around and some cheesy force ghosts watching, it will count as a feel-good ending. My best friend wouldn`t even notice if you swapped out all the main characters for episode 9, she just can`t remember how they look or what they are called. It would mean nothing to her if Kylo Ren died a villain.

 

I think people are comparing star wars to real-world parallels to much. yes in terms of government and war there are certainly intentional parallels, but the moment we get into the whole "Rey cannot hold the role of protagonist on her own" or "I apologize for using my position of power to sexually harass women (what?)" or how many chances should Kylo get, i think people are taking it too far.

We have a universe where the force exists. that is not real world. there is a dark force that can twist you into lusting for power and basically make you the worst version of yourself. alot of people seem to forget this angle and yet its Star Wars angle has been a big part of the universe. if a good person embraced the dark side... you would assume it would turn them into horrible people right? and we can assume Kylo was just a jerk from the start, which most people have and the moment he joined the dark side he changed very little because he was always a jerk. but this is more a fantasy universe. one that also has bounty hunters picking people off in bars and the space police don't turn up arresting them.

Its abit like jury duty in here.

 

The moment Rey being a women creates victimization in itself is when I personally lose interest.

People often like to think they are finding the flaws in gender equality. But all i see is that no one would notice even if there wasn't since its not about equality, its about hand feeding you out loud so you feel like there is special treatment. Which is where alot of the Mary Sue stuff came from.

 

This is true, but at the same time I have to ask (again speaking generally) how many people had a positive investment/wanted a happy ending for Vader after watching Empire? I'd guess not many. The third film can do a lot. Maybe they'll give us reason to believe in Ben's redemption in IX, or maybe they'll show why he's damned, but right now we're judging whether things can or can't work with only 2/3 of the story.

 

I think a redemption can be hopeful even if you aren't invested in the individual who is getting redeemed. Obviously it helps if you are, but I think the concept itself is hopeful.

 

Difference is I enjoyed watching Vader as a character and the redemption angle was focused on what Luke wanted. Who I was invested in.

I loathe Kylo and the redemption angle focuses on him as a character unto himself. And my opinion of the character is not gonna change, no matter what they do because I'm just too annoyed with him.

That doesn't make a redemption hopeful even as a concept. If Joffrey on GOT would have been redeemed, I would have felt the same. It would have cheated viewers out of the catharsis of seeing his painful death.

 

But it's something the OT3 want.

This is not something this series has ever really been in the business of in my opinion.

 

Han tried to redeem Kylo (for Leia, not Kylo), he's dead. Luke, the guy who redeemed Vader, wouldn't even try. He's dead. Last we heard from Leia, she didn't think he was redeemable anymore. And Carrie's dead, so their options are limited. It's hard to argue rn that the OT3 want Kylo redeemed in RoS, as it remains to be seen. Rey wanted it in TLJ and was disillusioned of that silly idea. Poe, Finn, Connix, Rose...anyone else signing a petition to #savebensolo? I doubt it.

 

Actually it's pretty easy. Leia has been wanting it for this entire trilogy, and at the moment when she loses that hope, Luke restores it. Han died hoping. The rumours are that Luke will be working on Kylo during the movie.

 

The St made me loathe Kylo on a personal level to a degree that I am actively "hoping" he doesn't get redeemed (even though intellectually I know he likely will). The sad part about it is if it was just what we saw in the movies thus far, I could maybe get on board. It's the commentary from RJ et al and the Kylo Stan's that poisoned his character to the degree that I want him to die a horribly painful and unredeemed death.

 

-Leia has wanted her son redeemed the entire trilogy. This will continue in TROS likely.
-Luke knows he personally can’t redeem him, but nobody is ever really gone. He knows there is still light in him, like his father.

 

But for me as a viewer, I don't care what they want. That doesn't make a satisfactory viewing experience for me.

Which was my larger point. Anybody who just can't stand Kylo Ren and is unlikely to change their mind will not benefit from a "happy ending" through Kylo. For those of us the ending is already depressive so "but he needs to be redeemed because of hopeful ending" isn't s convincing argument.
For people on board with the character on some level, of course that's different.

 

Right but the OT3 arent the protagonist. We know why they want this. I have no real idea why our actual protagonist would.

 

You just said that you were on board with Vader's redemption because it was what Luke wanted. That's why I brought up what the Big 3 wanted.

But they are still protagonists.

 

If I had loathed Vader as much as Kylo, it wouldn't have mattered to me what Luke wanted either. I was open to it in the specific context between those characters. Kylo is a completely hopeless case for me.

And if Rey wants it, well, I don't care for her either so that's doubly a no-go.