main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Development Of The Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Artoo-Dion , Sep 14, 2017.

Tags:
  1. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    @godisawesome

    Not surprised given Trevorrow and his writers track record....Not saying LFL doesn't bare the blame for hiring him in the first place but still, not surprised.

    Abrams on the other hand is better at that plus Rian himself has said he is a slow writer and it took him a year to write TLJ. Thankfully he didn't bring any of his pals like Lindelof or Kurtzman to help....Still 50/50 on Terrio and what he brings to the table.

    I can definitely see that, it's funny how the ST in particular has been "Director-First" driven while Anthology is probably the most ..."Story by Committee". Rogue One in particular with it's like 4 writers and essentially 2 Directors. Though I guess Jon Knoll was the overarching brain of it all, while Solo it was the Kasdan movie minus a Kasdan directing.

    Although the biggest difference with the ST and Anthology is a lot of the directors they get for the ST are both Writers and Directors.

    TFA: JJ co-wrote
    TLJ: Rian wrote
    TROS: JJ-Co Wrote, Trevorrow Co-Wrote

    Rogue One: A bunch of people
    Solo: The Kasdan's.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2019
    Jedi Ben and godisawesome like this.
  2. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    The Solo situation was highly unique, considering Kasdan had what would normally be absurd pull as a writer, and in hindsight feels like it was the natural consequence of taking a script written by a powerful writer with his one filmography as a successful director with his own peculiar style, and handing it over to a pair of directors with their own radicallydifferent approach.

    Now, of course, since I think Marvel’s gotten better in the last few years and TLJ’s horrible as a franchise film, I’d disagree with @Bor Mullet a bit over the “assembly line approach” disparagement:p, since as bad as the mediocrity of some MCU films are, I don’t think any have ever managed as drastic a change in styles and focuses with as divisive a film as TLJ, and I do think that TLJ being the one actual successful execution of their idea while Rogue One shows LFL pulling together a more complete film than Edwards without TLJ’s divisiveness maybe reinforces some of the traditional franchise structure and studio/producer heavy approach to serialized storytelling.
     
    Jedi_Fenrir767 and Jedi Ben like this.
  3. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    @godisawesome

    Essentially...You don't mess around with Papa Kasdan.

    Gonna be interested to see how B&W's thing goes down in terms of the Writer/Director relations. Of course they could just pick some trusted hands from GoT and they might not be as controlling as Kasdan when it comes to how things are executed...Granted i don't know what they are like outside of they're writing.

    Since the future has 2 approaches.

    Rian's -Who is gonna direct/write the first one of his trilogy, produce the next two
    B&W- Gonna (maybe) write them but not direct them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2019
  4. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    But Edwards is, IMO, quite an auteur, at least visually. I think his unique style would’ve been squashed by the MCU house style. He would never be hired in the first place. That’s what I mean re: Kennedy. Her instinct is to go with very creative people. And even if that results in some films that rub me the wrong way, as TLJ mostly does, I vastly prefer it to the MCU cookie-cutter approach. It’s no surprise that Ragnarok is my favorite MCU film, in that context. Waititi was allowed to play around a bit, and it resulted in something much more than just another installment.
     
  5. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    You would like Patrick Williams (Limitations of the MCU videos)







    In the second video especially he goes into how Marvel essentially has it's own In House VFK team that is almost separate from the main Director Unit....And how Star Wars on the other hand normally hires directors with some know how on big VFK blockbuster films...Ala JJ Abrams or even Gareth Edwards with Godzilla 2014
     
    Bor Mullet likes this.
  6. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Yup. And it’s their House VFX team that is responsible for the numbing sameness (and visually uninspired) CGI action scenes. It even happens in Ragnarok. Despite Waititi’s Herculean efforts to make his film visually interesting (which it often is), as soon as a fight breaks out, the House VFX Goons step in and it feels like you’re in any other Marvel movie again.
     
    canuckmuse likes this.
  7. Tusken Slayer

    Tusken Slayer Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 1999
    Wow talk of MCU movies looking the same....did I just time travel back to the MCU phase 1 days? I don't see how someone can watch Phase 1 MCU and then jump to phase 3 (Doctor Strange, Guardians 2, Ragnorak, Black Panther, and Infinity War) and not notice the dramatic change in a variety of visual styles and tone between movies...not to mention jump in quality (besides the shoddy CGI of Black Panther).

    Hell even just watching the time travel to 2012 scene during Endgame made me think (Wow these movies have come a long way).
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
    Jedi_Fenrir767 and Jedi Ben like this.
  8. Tusken Slayer

    Tusken Slayer Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 1999
    Wow what a waste of time that was. Turned it off after an hour in the middle of part 2. He could have just said "I love color. I want more color in the MCU like in phase 1" and been done with it.

    Basically he holds a very unpopular opinion that Phase 1 and Josh Whedon MCU > Russo bros MCU in nearly every way. Then he focuses so much on the color pallete -again holding the unpopular opinion that Josh Whedon MCU visuals > Phase 3 MCU visuals.

    It's like he confused Batman V Superman with Winter Soldier, Civil War, and Infinity War.

    And he thinks Thor 1 and 2 are better looking movies than Infinity War because....COLOR!!!

    Also - this is the same person who kept defending valid criticism of TLJ with "This is a movie about space wizards with laser swords"....yet he scrutinizes the most popular MCU movies using the same logic that he fought against when defending TLJ.

    Makes sense that he likes phase 1 more than 2 and 3. He sounds like he is more a fan of the hokey and campy elements of superhero movies, as opposed to the more serious take from the Russo bros.

    So glad the MCU turned out the way it did - and did not continue in the Josh Whedon style. Whedon's iteration of Captain America was pretty awful. Before the Russo bros, the MCU was basically "Iron Man and Friends". The Russo bros made Cap popular enough to be taken seriously by audiences as the leader of the team.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
    Jedi_Fenrir767 likes this.
  9. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    I don't think the MCU movies had a similar visual style. Well, perhaps many of them did, but not most or all of them. I have mixed feelings about the franchise. I tend to give a pass to Phase 1, because it was just starting out. For me, the stand out movie of that phase was "The Avengers". I don't think the MCU would have lasted as long as it did without that movie. And out of the 23 movies in that franchise, I was impressed by only at least five films . . . I think. I also feel that the franchise's high point was 2014 with the releases of "The Winter Soldier" and "Guardians of the Galaxy". After that . . . I don't know.

    I love the first four films of the DCEU - from "Man of Steel" to "Wonder Woman". I do like "Aquaman" a lot, but not as much as I love those first four films. After "Shazam!", I think my interest in the DCEU has not be the same. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong. But I don't really like this new attempt to make the DCEU like the MCU. How can I, when my opinion of the Marvel franchise has been slowly declining for the past four years? I don't know. I don't know what the future will bring.

    I think I may have stated this on another thread (or perhaps this thread), but I don't like the Sequel Trilogy. It is the only Star Wars trilogy that I actually dislike. It just seems so sloppily written to me. Right now, I think Disney is better at creating stand alone films. But due to their bad handling of the release of "Solo", it seems the studio would rather pretend that the serial films are better and that it should avoid stand alone films, because the executives refuse to acknowledge that THEY were responsible for the failure of "Solo" after releasing it seven months too early.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  10. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Um, Bob Iger openly acknowledged that mistake. I really don't see how you could possibly claim that they refuse to acknowledge their responsibility in Solo's outcome when the head of Disney himself clearly did just that.
     
  11. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Okay . . . Iger admitted this . . . nearly four months after the film's release. But why did Lucasfilm hint that it was better off releasing serialized films? Because right now, I have a higher opinion of their stand alones. And there are a lot of people who share my feelings.
     
    christophero30 likes this.
  12. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Years ago, I likened Veitch and Zahn to dueling Dark Lords, each with an apprentice in the form of Anderson and Stackpole. It'd be funny of that kind of split of vision happened on the films. Be very messy too, but funny.
    I think Marvel did learn from their excesses of Phase 2 - Phase 3 is more varied in its style and approach.
     
  13. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Maybe add three with Gareth Edwards, i feel he is definitely inspiring the Anthology/Disney + aesthetic/style.
     
    Bor Mullet likes this.
  14. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Quite directly, actually. Edwards chose Greig Fraser as his DP on Rogue One, as they share aesthetic sensibilities. He’s now the DP on the Mandalorian, and I suspect he’ll be involved in that capacity with the Cassian and Obi-wan shows.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
    Jedi Ben likes this.
  15. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    I do hope the Disney + show diversify in terms of look despite loving Rogue One's look.

    Also is it me or Ep 9 Aestetic looks different from 9 based on the Teaser is JJ DP doing something different?
     
  16. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Aside from "Black Panther", "Infinity War" and "Ant-Man & the Wasp", I thought the Phase 3 movies were terrible. Well . . . I thought the narrative for "Thor: Ragnarok" had potential. But I felt that the level of humor had undermined the plot just a bit too much.

    I don't know what to think of the Disney franchises right now. I just don't know.
     
  17. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

  18. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Well, when exactly are you supposed to make such a statement if not after the run is over and you are holding a meeting with your shareholders?

    When exactly did they state that they were better off releasing serialized films? The upcoming movies were already announced prior to the release of Solo. It seems rather obvious that if they reduce the number of releases, they would keep what is already in development and stop adding more on top of that.
    And what exactly does your opinion have to do with anything? Just because you prefer Rogue One or Solo to TFA and TLJ doesn't mean that this is somehow the general opinion or something Disney/Lucasfilm should base their decisions on.
     
  19. Echo Base

    Echo Base Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2013
    I don't know if you have discussed this in the previous 65 pages but here is the full version of the conversation with George Lucas in which he discusses the role midichlorians were to play in the sequel trilogy. I thought I'd bring it up again since it seems relevant after this week's rumours on milleniumfalcon.com (see
    https://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2028&t=10192 for possible spoilers).


    ****
    Lucas: Everyone hated it when we started talking about midichlorians in The Phantom Menace. A whole aspect of this film is about symbiotic relationships. It’s about recognizing that we’re not the boss. There is a whole ecosystem there.

    Cameron: There’s a whole ecosystem called microbiome inside that we’ve just started getting to know.

    Lucas: The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force.

    Cameron: You were creating a religion, George.

    Lucas: Back then, I used to say it means we’re just the cars, the vehicles of the Whills they’re traveling around with. We are the vessels of Whills. And the connection is via the midi-chlorians. The midi-chlorians are the ones who communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in the general sense, are the Force.

    Cameron: But in fact you’re just drawing a surface, a facade of science around an idea that is timeless, namely, the mind, the soul, the sky, the cause of all being. In your world, you’re accessing the basic archetype, the mind, a deity, and all that.

    Lucas: I worked this whole concept with the Force, the Jedi, and everything from beginning to end. I just never had the chance to finish it and tell people about it.

    Cameron: It’s a creation myth, and without a creation myth you can not build a world. Every religion, every mythology is based on it.

    Lucas: If I’d held on to the company, I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course a lot of fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would have been told.

    ****
    Source: https://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2024&t=10134
     
    Immortiss likes this.
  20. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Strange. I've understood this for years about Lucas' use of the midichlorians in the movie. But I never thought I would find someone else who also understood.
     
  21. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Kathleen Kennedy: “[My favorite career memory is] when George [Lucas] asked me to take over the company, we had to very quickly assess what this next Star Wars movie was going to be." “The fact that I was able to bring JJ Abrams into the family and start talking about the story and it came together so quickly, and there are so many people that care so much and had so much to offer, and then we put The Force Awakens up in front of fans and the audience, and reignited this incredible joy for this franchise and there was this thunderous applause wherever we went. I don't think any of us were quite prepared for that and I do think about that and I also respect the fact that that just doesn't happen all the time. You really do cherish those moments because you recognise how special it is.” "[While the negative feedback can be frustrating] I frankly love the feedback and frankly the criticism. You develop a little bit of an armour, but you learn from that. It's kind of like having a continual focus group that's out there telling you things, whether it's what you want to hear or you don't want to hear.” “We're just like the fans out there, we're just trying to find what's cool, what's heartfelt, what's strong storytelling and so I have to say - within reason - I love the feedback.” (August 26, 2019)
     
  22. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    https://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-1008#post-55976423

    Rey& Kylo, but also that leak from MSW at the end.
    MSW leak:
    [​IMG]

    But:

    https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/m...ise-of-skywalker-force-ghost-luke-1202151849/

    This seems to have been Trevorrow's idea: ghost Luke killing the KOR, maybe as part of IX's sequence in Ahch-To. The idea, it seems, was scrapped.

    But maybe only Luke got scrapped.

    I mean, apparently there's an Ahch-To set in IX. Dark Rey and that piece of (Luke's?) robe can still belong to it.

    But maybe the killing of the KOR scene has not been scrapped. Maybe they found a way of doing it with 'Vader' and/or Anakin instead of Luke combining that footage, reshoots, etc. 'Vader', I'd guess, since Anakin's lightsaber would be in Rey's hand during the duel. In that Aftermath novel, the acolytes wanted Vader's lightsaber in order to destroy it 'and return it to its master in death'

    As for the duel, it could be part of a flashfight. If Paasana desert>'lightning' desert, maybe Ahch-To cliff sequence>TROS ship-as-cliff sequence.

    The sequence seems to be pivotal, the Bespin of the ST, and would have there since the beginning during development, emerging here and there, through water imagery in VIII, for example.

    https://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-825#post-55889680
    https://boards.theforce.net/threads/daisy-ridley-rey-in-episode-ix.50047222/page-213#post-55889703
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  23. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    It’s interseting to look at the original 3 directors and the overall objectives i feel Lucasfilm wanted out of them...At least I think this is probably why they were chosen.

    JJ Abrams Ep 7: Back then everyone said “Have this guy direct a Star Wars” not to mention he is the reboot guy who succefully brings back franchises

    Rian Ep 8: Middle one is kinda the artsy one anyway so bring in a artsy guy.

    Trevorrow Ep 9: Jurassic World was successful and kidna wrapped up the Jurassic Park franchise more or less, so we need that guy to just wrap up the plot threads more or less.

    JJ and Trevorrow are kinda cut from the same cloth in ways (Though I think JJ is better) and kinda do the same thing in terms of being crowd pleaser type directors.
     
    Lulu Mars likes this.
  24. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    “The story that we’re telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did ‘The Force Awakens,’ was allowed to continue. Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”
    — JJ Abrams
     
    MarcJordan likes this.
  25. Hernalt

    Hernalt Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Regarding the proposed problem of free will, I'd be fine seeing a conflict between Whills. Some greater purpose would have to be devised to be worth kicking the can of conflict down the road, or sending the problem up the chain of command, by one unit of association. There would be a risk of undoing the numinous purity of the ESB Dagobah teaching moment (and the SW77 Obi-Wan moments) that reduces to self-affirmation.