ST Episode IX Box Office Discussion

Yeah, it all feels like negotiation techniques to me. Disney gave an extremely aggressive offer to start the negotiations. I doubt they ever believed they would get 50% - it was just an opening offer. Then, Sony countered with their most extreme leverage (no spidey for you!). Now, they're both trying to play the PR game as the wronged party. I think they'll come together eventually, but the negotiations will be arduous because they have both demonstrated they are willing to play hardball.

 

A sequel with Tom Holland and Jon Watts but no MCU connections is exactly what I expect they'll do if they don't reach an agreement. And I agree that a good percentage of the audience will still turn up without the MCU connection (especially if the trailers are good). When I said negative impact I didn't mean it would be a flop or do terribly, just that there would be a negative impact (even more so if it affects the quality of the film). They're both stronger together. There's no real winners here, especially the fans, but I agree that Sony was right to say not to Disney's 50/50 offer. In terms of the film itself losing the MCU connection could make the movie feel awkward if it's not really able to reference past events and characters that have been important in Peter's life. Whilst I think you'd want to pick up right after that credits scene, a time jump might be the easiest way to smooth over the transition if they need to.

 

Putting Spidey in a venom sequel will be a mistake IMO. Venom didn't make its money by being a comic book movie. It was a weird rom-com with some comic book stuff thrown in. This Venom and this Spidey, I can't see working out in one movie. Way too different vibes. If they throw them together, Spidey's true blue comic book vibe will win out and Venom was utter nonsense in that regard.

 

A good portion yes will show up if Spidey 3 isn't @ChrisLyne but there will be a sizable chunk that will "skip it" knowing it's no longer part of a larger universe or are simply MCU fans. This is a lose-lose for both sides which is why I think a deal will eventually get done.

 

Agreed. Which is why I said there would be a negative impact (mitigated by good trailers, increased if the quality of the films drops). Lose-lose, and fans lose the most.

Good catch! That makes it much more reasonable from Disney's side. All things considered Sony should probably take that if Disney don't make a more preferable offer. Maybe Disney could offer that and let Sony use the Miles Spider-Man in their Spider-Universe movies?

 

The co-financing/co-production would have given Disney ownership in all of Sony's future projects they were going to do related to the character. (Morbius, Venom, Kraven, ect.). So Disney controlling 50% of all future films that Sony makes related to the character sounds like a horrible deal for Sony. Why would you give up that much for your biggest franchise. Someone should have been fired if they accepted that deal.

 

How can a Tom Holland driven Spider-man 3 possibly go a head :

They have to make it with no connection to any MCU characters like Tony Stark , Nick Furry & also Happy will be out so we have to carry on in almost a reboot fashion !

 

People would lose interest in following Spiderman movies with Holland that aren't connected and won't be connected to the Marvel uni.

Likewise, Spidey is the new cornerstone of the next phase of Marvel.

The two are 100% dependent on each other and will suffer without Spidey. Thus, a deal will be made.

 

Good catch, but that doesn't change my assessment too much. Even with Disney paying for half of the budget, Sony is still going to lose out, I think, even compared to their potentially losses outside of the MCU. Spider-Man is still their property and it feels like Disney is trying to muscle in to get a de facto co-ownership arrangement. There is also the factor that Sony apparently made counteroffers which Disney declined. We don't know the nature of these counteroffers naturally, but I think a 70-30 split might be more appropriate, and if Disney is turning down offers like that for this 50-50 split, I think they are being unreasonable.

 

I'd love to see Feige exit the MCU entirely. Bring some fresh talent in to reinvigorate the stale (yet insanely lucrative...) franchise.

Right, @Darth Chiznuk?

 

A 50-50 split of someone else's IP is honestly an insane ask. Nothing wrong with Disney shooting for the moon, but I doubt they ever imagined such a deal would actually be realized.

 

Spider Man should go to some indie film maker.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...r-performs-like-the-dark-knight/#19a849f35609

 

Glass half full perspective: Sony did make the three greatest Spiderman movies of all time so there’s that. (SM1, SM2, Spiderverse).

 

Lol, maybe I’m the exception here but I never watched any of Tom’s films as Spider Man (even if I know he’s a brilliant actor who made the character so popular in today’s MCU)... And same goes for Avengers - didn’t follow any of the movies except Infinity War...

I enjoyed Spider-Verse though, what a refreshing take on the “usual” Spider Man stories (brilliant gem by Sony Pictures), and one of my favorite films of the year too!

 

I really hope they do! I dont know if I'd want to see a fourth reboot of Spider-Man considering two that the series would have not have a proper ending with two of the reboots (TASM didnt have a proper ending and Toms Spidey would not have eighter though you could retcon this in any way in the MCU).

I cant wrap my head around that Disney and Marvel Building Spidey up as much as they did with the past movies to really drop him now. That doesnt make sense. And Sony and Disney/Marvel hopefully noticing the online reactions which hopefully make them reconsider...

 

please no, Kevin Feige is the best this franchise has for such a wonderful world-building. He is in one league with George Lucas.

and I really hope they make a late deal, because MCU without Spiderman won't be the same...

 

Where did it say about related projects (Venom, Morbius, etc.)? My understanding was this was just about the situation as before and wouldn't affect Sony's other Spider Universe plans? If it does affect the non-MCU films then Disney are being ridiculously unreasonable.

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...1233644?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Apparently Sony thinks, after the succsess of Venom and Spider-Verse, that they dont need the MCU and Feige anymore which is why they are as stubborn as Disney is with their offers.

Quite the Dilemma...

 

Interesting that the new article says Disney wanted "at least 30%". That supports 50/50 being an opening offer and negotiations going from there. Honestly, if it keeps Spidey in the MCU (which just saw Sony get it's biggest ever movie) and doesn't affect their other Spider Verse plans, and Disney are paying 30% of the costs, then I think that sounds much more reasonable on Disney's part.

At this point it's not about "learning from Kevin's play book" (though there are certainly plenty of good lessons there). This Spider-Man and the MCU are so intertwined it would hurt both from a story perspective to separate them. Spider-Verse I'll grant them, Venom let's see how the sequel does before saying they've cracked it.

Financially, I can see that, even allowing for the negative impact this would have, Sony would make more profit without the MCU, at least at first (unless they really screw it up). But if that starts them on a negative creative spiral again, they will lose more long term.

 

I'm sure that it's frustrating, but at the end of the day Sony fairly owns the property. It just feels like Disney is trying to strong arm into co-ownership and is willing to blow up the partnership unless they get what they want (likely hoping that public opinion and stock market response brings Sony back). I know that they have a fiduciary duty (which might mean a deal could still be reached) to play hard ball, but it just comes across as grossly greedy. Granted I don't know the counter offers made by either side and it's difficult to know who is truly being unreasonable.