ST The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors Thread

You can induce a seduction to it though. The whole point for Luke is that even though he was like i will never join you, palpatine knew he could push Luke to feel more of that seduction that would turn him dark. if it was all about choice, then all that stuff in that scene would mean nothing at all. it would just be stupid of Papatine and Vader to be messing around bothering to make him angry for no reason.

 

Do you think they will include some elements of Timothy Zahn's Thrawn novels in TROS? I think it's a possiblity that TROS will set up more movies that tied directly into these books.

Here are my thoughts (spoilers if you haven't read the books but are planning to):

• The new Thrawn novels introduce the Chiss into official Canon. The Chiss are from the UR, which will finally be introduced on screen in TROS.
• The Thrawn novels also introduce us to the Grysk as a new enemy that threatens the GFFA.
• We were also introduced to Batuu in these novels, which is the setting for Galaxy's Edge in Disneyland/World.
• Thrawn disappeared along with Ezra into the UR and this all took place before the OT.
• With the Emperor hiding a secret fleet in the URs, and assuming it and the First Order are decimated at the end of TROS, and assuming there isn't a "New Republic" formed by the Resistance by the end of TROS, I think it's safe to say that the GFFA will be in a very weakened state in terms of Government and military defense by the end of TROS.
• It's hard to imagine the Grysk, and Chiss for that matter, not noticing the state of things after the events of TROS. This would present a tempting opportunity to begin an invasion of the Galaxy from their main terrority in the UR.
• It's a strong possibility that Thrawn has reasoned with Ezra to recognize this new threat and I wouldn't be surprised if both of them went to the Chiss territory after their disappearance in the UR. They could be somehow helping ready the Chiss for a war against the Grysk.
• A new movie/series of movies could focus on this Grysk invasion with the Chiss becoming involved while being led by Thrawn/Ezra.
• The Thrawn novels must be popular with the fans because Disney just green-lit Zahn to make three more that will be Thrawn's story among the Chiss before he joined the Empire. I think it's safe to say that the Grysk empire will be explored at length during these new novels.

Anyway, just some thoughts to chew on. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some movies or shows focus on this new story line in the future. I'm 100% fine with this too since it will give us some interesting and original stories to enjoy. And let's be honest, who doesn't love Thrawn?

 

And whats wrong with a beautiful racial romance of a black guy and an Asian lady that is there?

How often do you see that?

 

Sometimes friendships just stay friendships. Sometimes the heart wants what it wants. Sometimes a woman of color doesn’t finish second best in a Hollywood film to a white woman savior with runway model looks for the male hearthrob. What’s wrong with women who identify with Rose getting their ship?

 

Well since Finn and Rey were set up first, you kinda have to answer why the shift away from them first.

There's obviously nothing wrong with Finn and Rose being a couple. Now you go. Finn and Rey.

 

It's all choice. Palpatine and Vader are egging him on, getting him emotional, angry, aggressive, destructive ... so that he loses himself to his emotions and can no longer make a rational choice. Palpatine isn't relying on destiny or some will of the force to make Luke turn. He needs/wants him to make the choice to turn, based on getting angry and losing himself to those emotions. Same with Anakin. He needed Anakin to choose the dark side, to choose his path. He offered Anakin a seductive choice, and placed Anakin in a situation where he would get angry, mad, aggressive and destructive.

The thing about 'destiny' is that Palpatine makes you feel like you don't have a choice, but to follow it. When in reality, your focus determines your destiny. Anakin gave up after becoming Vader. He thought this was his path forever. Yoda and Obi-wan also believed this. Until Luke - who refused the seductive offer, refused his 'destiny' as told by Palpatine, and focused on what he wanted and made his own destiny. "So be it, Jedi". Which then in turn, finally made Vader realize he still had a choice to make. And in that moment, he made it.

Kylo knows all of this. He knows full well he always has a choice. He doesn't feel locked in to his dark destiny. He's literally trying to make it happen by choice.

 

Why does there have to be any romance at all?

 

So many theories about the Force and what it can/can't do. I tend to not define too tightly and keep it as a loose otherworldly thing. Especially after TPM. Thanks to Force we had Jedis running at the speed of The Flash and jumping 50 foot in the air. Force related feats we never saw again...

 

I would not go there when it also means that black hero finishes second to the trashpiece villain - who is white. This race game will lead nowhere good fast.

 

Never ever saw Rey and Finn as romantically linked. More brother and sister IMO

 

And Rey must be related by blood for it to qualify as the Skywalker saga? That is like saying everyone who isn't a Skywalker doesn't matter and that has never been the case. In the prequels, Anakin isn't even the hero. The clear idea her is the impact the Skywalkers have had, that leads to our final hero joining that legacy by choice.

 

Because brothers are interested in shy ways about whether their sisters have cute boyfriends?

No I didn't say that. Again, no need to strawman. It's really not a confusing concept. The story needs to be about the Skywalkers. Rey is the protagonist in the story. Somehow, it all needs to fit. Leia isn't an Organa by blood, but she is an Organa by circumstances. Rey could certainly have been a Skywalker by circumstances and not blood, but that has to be shown in the story. They could have shown it by Rey Palpatine being raised by Luke, or adopted by Han and Leia, or trained with Luke, or developing on screen a very close bond with Luke. Countless options. They chose none of the above apparently.

In the Skywalker Saga, it's not an insult to say people don't matter if they're not Skywalkers. It's just a fact that the story is about the Skywalkers. Do you think I'm insulting Hermione when I say Harry Potter isn't about her? I seriously doubt it. She supports Harry's story. That's how storytelling works.

 

Rey is basically Superman and Finn is the Storm Trooper Jimmy Olsen but with Antman comedic charm and a willingness to fight to the death if need be.

 

But if you go by ROTJ rules, or at least the impacting premise is that if luke makes his move, if he strikes at palpatine out of anger then his journey towards the dark side will be complete. its also suggested if Luke kills Vader then thats it for him. but if you take that out then Luke could just kill Vader and be like

Luke: Naah im still good... how did you think this would change me palpy?
Palpatine: oh darn... i was so sure you would kill Vader you would suddenly wanna be bad.

Its a choice. but its also about touching on something you won't wanna give up once you embrace it. thats what makes the whole ending of ROTJ impactful. Luke threw away his saber to make a stand that he wouldn't allow himself to go that far.

 

The only issue I have with Rose and Finn, is it feels there simply to keep Finn from Rey. Rian created a bare bones character who does nothing in TLJ, to simply remove Finn from the equation.

 

Finn was totally lusting over Rey. He even asks her if she has a boyfriend. The ending of TFA shows Rey cares for Finn. That caring could become more.

 

Its better with Finn and Rose because yno race. important messages and all that. political stuff.

 

Still never got that impression that he wasn't asking in romantic way. Finn was just blurting out questions in a frenzied way

 

Rey Random would have been better if the message is supposed to be "blood doesn't matter, you can still be a hero even if you're not a Skywalker'. But making her a Palpatine says yes, bloodlines do matter. And this isn't reality, this is the Skywalker Saga. So that family does matter.

it would be like watching the Godfather movies, and then suddenly the last movie is about the Smith family from Montreal trying to be the Godfather. The Godfather is about the Corleone's. The Skywalker Saga is about the Skywalkers. No one has ever said you can't be a hero unless you're a blood relative of Luke, Leia or Anakin.

 

Kylo has locked himself into his choice. He is the classic idiot who thinks once he started down the path, he has to stay the course no matter what the universe is screaming at him. Considering he is actively doing this while having his family there begging him not to, makes it more clear he is making a choice. He isn't abandoned, he ran away to become a space Nazi.

One thing I really don't like is how old Rian made Kylo when he made his choice. As a moody teen, it makes a bit more sense. But he was like 25 when he made his choice. Still young, but not that young.

 

So you like the message of Finn being passed over for the white incel inherent in TLJ? Finn's obsessed with his pal Rey, she's kissing up to the guy that just tried to kill Finn. Good messaging for ya?

 

I’m not ruling it out either (FinnRey). In fact, in many of my Bendemption concepts where Ben moves from awful and selfish to helpful and selfless I imagined him dying to save Finn at the end and telling him something meaningful about how lucky he is to have her in his life and how he knows he’s a good guy.

But they’re not doing that from the looks of the leaks.

 

Lusting? Really? Finn was in frenzied panic mode. He was just blurring out questions

 

I don't understand you now. This ... is what happened. Palpatine/Vader tried to seduce Luke. Tried to make him angry. Luke got angry. Almost tried to kill the Emperor. Almost killed his father. And then realized...shoot...I see what they're doing. I need to remain calm here or they're right, that will be my destiny. And so, he refuses to play their game. He makes his choice not to join them. not to fight them, not to get angry, to be a Jedi.

All choice. Not destiny. Not predetermined either.

 

A man doesn't ask a woman if she has a boyfriend if he is not interested in her. Especially if they have just met.