ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Different: As in good and bad aspects. If the relationship is all bad, then what is so different or complex about it. It’s bad enough said.

 

Different: as in he can be bad to her in person AND bad to her from across space. Snatching a necklace off her neck from another location (allegedly) is pretty different than just abusing her in person. Violating her mind is pretty different than physically abducting her.

 

They’re adversaries in war until he changes from the sounds of it.

 

They're not just adversaries in war from the leaks. Normal adversaries in war don't taunt each other about their parents or invade their minds to degrade them emotionally. Adversaries in war don't stalk each other. They don't hyper focus on killing the one individual that they hate. Adversaries in war are just each on a side fighting to win the war. It isn't personal directed at one person on the other side.

Rey and Kylo's "complexity" sounds like it comes from Kylo being personally motivated to terrorize Rey individually. Of course it's all bad. That's what it is to be stalked and tormented. It's all bad, but it's complex because it's personal. It's not just about the ideology of the war.

 

Bad.
Bad again.
More Bad.

A violation is violation. The method is just a means to end. Essentially this is all the same thing. How is a bad guy doing bad guy things making their relationship complex/different?

Vader and Luke’s dynamic was platonically complex. I know most would say it worked far better, but that familial element added a different tone that made their relationship more complicated than the classic hero-villain dynamic. If the two only want to kill each other, then the relationship is literally simple. Which is perfectly fine if that story wants to go that route, but I would say Daisy is indicating otherwise with her use of the word complex.

 

"Bad
Bad again.
More bad."

Yes, that sums up Rey and Kylo's relationship perfectly. I'm glad you're getting the point.

Totally agree that Kylo is related to Rey, that doesn't make their relationship "not bad."

 

One thing I know DR definitely doesn't mean - "It's complex because even though Kylo does nothing but terrorize Rey, she still thinks he's kinda hot."

Shallow =/= complex. It's just shallow.

 

What happened to complex? You were kind of enough to spend the time to look it up for me. If you want to ignore Daisy and facts for that matter, be my guest.

 

Strawman much? Now you're not even trying to make sense. We already covered complex. That does not mean it's not bad. It is. Bad. Bad again. And more bad.

 

You argued over the word complex and now suddenly talking about it is a straw man? We have also covered what a different opinion means. We disagree even on that.

 

We didn't argue over the meaning of complex, I provided you a definition since you didn't understand the meaning of the word.

 

If "complex" in this case means there is some good in Kylo and Rey's dynamic for Rey specifically, I'm super curious. Can anyone please identify what the good is for her? Not for Kylo, for Rey. What is she getting positive out of all the stalking and torment and assault Kylo is directing her way that makes it not all bad?

One rule - the "good" can't be learning some tragic whiny backstory about Kylo, unless it directly relates to her. That's not a good thing for Rey. Kylo's backstory isn't her problem unless it literally relates to her.

 

He's going to share his hair product and teach her how to use a blow-dryer!

 

Oh actually, Rey could probably use some tips on this front. His TFA hair blew her date 'do out of the water. Though I dunno, in TLJ his hair was kinda greasy.

 

It's all the stress from torturing people, killing his dad, becoming Supreme leader...

 

Good post and I agree with you. I still like the drama of what I’m hearing but I agree with what you’re saying at the same time.

 

Their bond is not complex. Their bond amounts to 'hey we have this bond, isn't that weird?'. I'm pretty sure other force users, good and evil, in the past could dig into each other's heads, if they left the door open. I mean they sense each other pretty readily in the PT.

Rey and Kylo are also pretty much the only force users in town, so obviously they think that means something. If there were others, their special bond would be common place. And the only reason why this bond has lasted as long as it has, is because Kylo wants Rey on his side to kill people.

The only reason why Reylo is more complex than any other force rivalry/team up, is because some fans are adding a whole lot of added subtext that is unnecessary to the story based on personal shipping desires. Without that subtext, they have a pretty basic force power mind-reading, protagonist v antagonist 'bond'.

 

I don’t necessarily disagree. Though I think the two lineage reveals and their family’s history does add more to it all than many of you do. You’ve all made that clear.

The difference is that many of us do think that they see the potential in the other if they’d change because we think that these two would love to hook up with the other if that happened.

 

I've never thought, "Gosh, I would love to hook up with a guy who knocked me out, kidnapped me, tortured me, violated me, stalked me, and wanted to kill me." I know, shocking! I've also never thought, "Gosh, I would love to hook up with a guy who killed his dad and wants to kill his mom!"

 

Have you as an extremely rare force user whose parents were murdered ever found yourself in a mythology known for shocking evils and family violence in the backdrop of an intergalactic war when your own family has a kind of power that last went so evil that your grandfather ruled the galaxy much like this new man?

No? Then you’re hardly qualified to judge.

 

Seriously, how is the Resistance not using their special bond to find out what the FO is up to and what Kylo is planning*. IF Kylo is doing that with Rey, why can't she at least do the same. Force spies, now that becomes complex. lol

*I don't keep up with every leak. Is that what Rey is trying to do? Find out what the FO is attacking next?

 

I don't think anyone is qualified to tell us that because we're not force users, we can't understand that assault and violations against Rey don't count as much.

Unfortunately I haven't seen it. The leaks so far only gave half a brain to Kylo to try and use the assault on Rey's mind strategically. Still waiting to hear about Rey being afforded her thinking cap.