ST I Have A Bad Feeling About This - The "Haters" Sanctuary

it's kind of sad how completely culturally irrelevant the ST is. I cannot see these movies aging well either, they aren't timeless for a second. And JJ for once is right that TLJ did a lot of things that are completely out of place in SW. And RoS is supposed to build off of his movie too. A disjointed mess of a trilogy with incoherent ideas that never goes anywhere. Or when they have interesting ideas, the bottom line=waste of time.

 

Avengers did come out in 2012. But it's the 6th film in a series..... And what Marvel was doing the rest of Hollywood didn't understand yet. It was too new. Too off the map. Remember everyone saying Super Hero movies are about to fail for like the last 20 years? Even now - no other studio has put together anything close to what Marvel has done in the last 11 years.

Look at Avengers: Endgame. It's opening was huge. Way bigger than The Force Awakens. But it didn't have the legs to beat The Force Awakens in North America. It's fairly common for a big movie to have the biggest opening day and then drop the next day or the next weekend. Very quickly that huge opening total lead gets burned off as the daily totals dip lower than movies with sustained higher daily totals. Or legs.

That day 2 drop for The Force Awakens was a sign it wouldn't have legs. And that's what people took day 2 of The Force Awakens to mean. It was doom and gloom - Star Wars is beat. Jurassic World would have higher daily totals and grind it down.

And we're talking the sort of commenters who post on places like this forum and didn't understand the holiday boost movies like Titanic or Avatar saw. Even films like Lord of the Rings and Hobbit had that boost but it wasn't magnified to the same heights. It was all very interesting to see play out.

No one realistically predicted TFA would make more money than Avatar in North America. Or that it would be the second highest grossing Star Wars film adjusted for inflation. It's really amazing how well it did. There is no where up to go for Star Wars at the box office after that.

 

Honestly, the whole controversy regarding ST right now can be traced all the way back to the mainstream reception of the PT and changes to the OT via Special Edition. Not just how Lucasfilm treats the PT but mainstream media and nerd culture as a whole.

I mean, by saying it's not only okay to hate Episode I-III but it's mandatory for every new journalist to take a jab at them, it's telling future fans that any Star Wars work (and any other media for that matter) they don't like should be slandered and shunned in the most caustic way possible, and that anyone who disagrees otherwise must be "reeducated" for not seeing the work for what they see it as.

And for Lucasfilm to appease that mainstream media bandwagon through the ST is simply unwise. PT fans weren't oblivious to their trilogy's reception in mainstream culture. They were watching and learning from them, especially as young impressionable kids.

 

Well, they certainly did a good job of appeasing them by making the black co-lead completely irrelevant.

 

No one takes the alt right seriously because we know they’re idiots. The issue is that anyone that had genuine criticism against the films were labelled every “ist” under the sun by the far left, who do get taken seriously and who are just as big a bullies (eff the far left). It’s at the point that anyone that doesnt agree with the far left is now alt right. No wonder people are fed up, especially when the attacks are coming from actual Lucasfilm employees.
TLJ defenders must have arms like Mr Fantastic for the incredible reaching they do, usually involving calling Luke a Gary Stu in order to convince themselves that Rey isn’t a poorly written character or that the reason the films feel like a bargain basement retread is because of “tHeMeS”.
It’s like pottery, it’s rhymes.



Sorry for the rant, feeling particularly salty today. I feel like Luke in ROTJ with a blazing torch standing in front of Vader’s funeral pyre, but in this case it’s not Anakin on the pyre but Star Wars itself. As King Theoden said in a vastly superior trilogy, “How did it come to this?”

 

Thank you for pointing out this truth.

 

Yes. Take that past history of Star Wars in the current state of social media, click bait culture, and the way all topics are polarized politically and you get where we are now. Star Wars fans remind me of the debates over religion when beliefs are formalized.

It is weird the way journalists jab at the prequels. And today it's like this lame relic from another time that shows the writers age and bias. Even if they complement them, there is a need to justify it with a jab. Grow up. The prequels are over. We survived.

 

The Avengers success wasn't simply down to Marvel. It was also down to Disney, and their marketing. That was their first release for Marvel, and Disney are the kings of marketing. Also, it was the same year Disney bought Star Wars, amazing how that all came together at the same time...

Not in December. The holiday dictates this. No one who understands how the box office works would say that. That is why the biggest question was how big could TFA be in terms of an opening, considering the time of year.

I am not talking about them. I am talking about industry insiders, experts, and people who obsess over box office, like the good folk over at BoxOfficeTheory. Because we aren't talking about our expectations, but Disney's, who are a part of the industry. Disney are also know to downplay numbers, to bring down expectations.

This is flat out wrong. It just is. I saw it, plenty, because I love the box office game.

 

He has betrayed you in battle and this you do not forgive, or forget.

Turns out chucking petrol on flames results in an explosion - who knew?

Commercially, I don't see any way for RoS to fail - it'll make money. If anything is going to hit Disney there it'll be a combination afterwards of the audience buying the line that Ep IX = the end, so losing interest in other stuff and/or the casual audience being far smarter than it is given credit for, which RO shows in a way.

Online? Yeah, that conflagration I'll admit to finding very amusing. When observed from a safe distance.

 

It's not a left/right issue at all. A few bullies on each side have tried to hijack this divide into a political narrative. Some heavily pro-TLJ bullies try to spin "haters" as alt-conservative bigots. Some heavily anti-TLJ bullies try to spin TLJ lovers as far left, or whatever. Both sides are pushing their dumb politics on the rest of us. This isn't a political divide. It's a story divide. TLJ isn't progressive anyway. Both sides are completely wrong about that. What a shock. Extremist bullies don't even know what real progressivism is.

 

yeah it really is annoying all the unnecessary jabs they get from journalists even when they aren't even the discussion, lol.

I do think it's interesting the growing # of people who didn't like the PT but are starting to appreciate them more due to the ST. A good example is Pegg who bashed the PT for years, now seems to appreciate them more and that the Saga isn't the same without Lucas's touch.

I can never appreciate anything that just rehashes, SW is about taking the series to new direction. There just isn't anything in that in the ST, it's a retread.

 

I guess I haven't seen these Youtube channels. I've seen channels that are part of the self-proclaimed "Fandom Menace" but I haven't gotten the impression that they are alt-right. Most that I've seen complain about the poor writing and character development. I've seen some complain that they are being accused of being bigots but I haven't actually seen them say anything bigoted. Maybe I just don't pay enough attention. If I watch a Youtube channel that ends up being vile, I move on.

 

LOL there aren't thousands of alt-right videos that bash TLJ. That is most certainly a hyperbole.

 

Exactly this though. I’m a feminist and there’s nothing misogynist about hating Reylo. It’s a bad ship with a bad message. Finnrey was much more palatable and I really don’t understand how it didn’t take off. It’s clear Finnrey was the angle they were going for but RJ screwed that up.

 

My exact experience as well. Yes you get the occasional moron but they’re few and far between, it’s the storytelling decisions that has caused the backlash they’re now getting.

 

Just saw some people on Twitter call TLJ timeless clasic looool.

 

Are we talking full videos dedicated to TLJ, or just any video that decides to take a shot? Also how big does the creator have to be? Because thousand honestly might not be far off. Any topic with interest from the alt-right gets a cascade of videos about it, especially over the first few weeks. Because you get the initial videos, the responses, and then the fall out.

 

Killing Kylo does not mean it sucks, on the contrary it's an absolute highlight. The Reylo kiss though is hella gross and cheezy as humanly possible. Rey being a Palpatine and taking the Skywalker name at the end thereby erasing 40 years of storytelling about the prophesy and the chosen one being Anakin and Luke is completely erased. The chosen one ended up being a Palpatine. That is what is going to make the movie suck.

 

The leader of the 'Fandom Menace', or whatever they call themselves, Geeks and Gamers, is an absolute moron. That doesn't mean that they make up the majority of criticisms, but unfortunately YouTube seems to bring the morons to the fore.

 

You have never seen one? Not one? Really? Because some on the left made response videos to some of the more prominent ones, and the initial videos are bad. Like don't understand Star Wars, to make their really racist and sexist comments bad. It started with TFA and TLJ stuff just devolved into mass hysteria on all fronts.

 

Just like Twitter.

 

People in Fandom Manace are mostly trash. They are insane in their hatred against Lucasfilm and KK. I can't sympathize with them.

 

"Timless clasic" and "complete cinematic failure". Truth is somewhere in between IMO.

 

Yes, but I doubt you'd say you just see an 'occasional' moron on Twitter