Senate Pandemics in the Age of Globalization: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion: See OP Warning

It's important to note what President Biden said. He said that there will be enough supply to vaccinate every American adult by the end of May, not that every adult can get vaccinated by that time. Vaccines don't distribute and administer themselves. He didn't highlight the distinction.

 

Man - you're something. You really are. Ummmm..... yeah..... we have the masks off while eating. Hello? My area is not a hotspot for Covid. Trending way down. Sorry to disappoint you. I dont live scared. If you prefer to hide under your mattress for the next five years then please do. Its a free country so if my local diner is open I will be going there as we desire. You gotta lighten up, bro.

 

Lots of people said that last spring...and last summer....and last fall....

Seems like a trend to me.

 

You complained about me making assumptions, but my assumption was correct. So why should I not make correct inferences about your behavior when, as you note, those assumptions are true?

Ok, if your area is not a hotspot for COVID, could you provide your source that the COVID rate is averaging less than 10 new cases per day per million people? You've said it's not a hotspot but seem unable to provide the evidence that the case rate is actually low. If it's not a hotspot, show that the case rates are actually that low.

I presume you also don't stop at school crossings because you "don't live scared"? Since it's other people at risk and not you, those are all people that don't actually matter, clearly. The utterly stupidest part of this is the "hide for the next five years" thing. The places that have treated COVID the way I want to handle it have been having concerts and stuff for months because they have gotten the COVID numbers down low enough that it's gone or only slightly present. Your way is why things aren't back to normal already, and why they won't be back to normal for some time yet.

It's also not at all surprising that you can't even comprehend the idea of doing something for the well-being of others. The sort of personality that calls someone a chicken because they won't drive drunk and the like.

You do a great job demonstrating why we can't just rely on people to make their best judgement.

 

Sigh.

No, I wont share geographical data with you other than Im in the Finger Lakes region of NY. If our leaders feel its OK to be open then we will be open. Sorry you dont like but its clear you live somewhere else so what do you care? We are open(mostly & with some restrictions) and will continue to be open. Our economy suffered enough and the local leaders and health experts are fine with being mostly open. Take it up with them. But we are enjoying trips to our diners. I dont care about your "10 new cases per million" statistic. We will continue to enjoy time with friends(with sensible precautions in place) and continue to go about our business. Im glad Covid is under control where you are or where ever else. We'll be fine. Its not an issue here either.

Doing something for the well being of others? We mask up. We dont run around coughing on old ladies. What are you talking about? What, you want me to sit on my couch all day and do nothing? Is that it? Sorry, not happening. Our area is bustling with activity which is great to see. Vaccines are being given to the highest risk at a fast pace. And we all are protecting our own high risk as we need to. No reason for hysterics or any other ridiculous mitigation tactics.

 

Gotta love when someone demonstrates it with the very next post.

 

"Our economy suffered enough" is really all he needed to say about his motivations.

 

For anyone interested in reading that journal article, here is the link: https://jkms.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3346/jkms.2020.35.e415 It is labeled Open Access, so I assume everyone can access it (but I'm also on a university campus where the library has a lot of journal subscriptions, so I may be wrong).

It's an interesting read and worth considering, though do note the limitations that the author admits about the inability to recreate the conditions accurately. That combined with the lack of any information on sample size or confidence intervals for the airflow velocities (as they quote for other numbers) tends to make me distrust the 1.2 m/s figure they state. (Yes, this is the result of taking a university statistics course last semester where the professor told us on day one that we would never look at a statistic the same way ever again.)

Regardless of that detail, it does seem that air flow and the direction you are facing is key. I generally prefer to have my back to the wall and have a view of the room, but going forward I will strongly consider seating facing a wall and at a table with no detectable moving air when I do dine in (which is still not frequent by any means).

As for masking in restaurants: my mask stays on until I'm ready to begin eating, and goes back on anytime I get up (e.g. for a drink refill) and when I finish my food (or decide that I can't eat any more). I don't keep it off unnecessarily.

 

Every one of those counties that I checked has significantly higher COVID levels. I don't see any that are not a hot spot. So, again, by all presented evidence, you live in a COVID hotspot area. Most of this country is (there's a few areas that aren't, but none of those counties are in the finger lakes region of NY).

We can go through it county by county if you'd like, using the CDC data. Again, we're looking for areas that aren't hot spots (under 10 cases per million per day).
Orleans: 120
Genesee: 206
Wyoming: 226
Monroe: 186
Livingston: 204
Ontario: 182
Wayne: 137
Seneca: 265
Yates: 37* (this one is hand counted because the CDC doesn't calculate the numbers for very small counties)

So on a county level, there are no areas that are not hot spots in the finger lakes based off that data set. And either you live in Yates County, or you do not live in a county that's even *close* to not being a hotspot for COVID. You're going to do this "well I don't care about numbers" thing, either because you simply don't care about others or because you don't understand them, but you don't get to just opt out of it when the issue is specifically about the prevalence of COVID.

The topic was not "does Quigonmike actually care about COVID or not", if you want to make that argument that you don't care about COVID, I would certainly not disagree with you on that because you clearly don't. I think you've made that clear.

So, similarly, you support the national minimum wage increase because Biden is our leader and he said he wants it? Do you support the student loan bailouts because our leaders want it, and you just want what leaders want? Are you consistent that whatever value judgement leaders make, you will support?

You're responding to something that was never said. More to the point, because you've done your dumb "but you should go out and do things" in response to many people talking about how they miss going places, it doesn't take much to piece together that the reason so many are staying home is specifically because it is *not* under control yet where we are.

So whenever you're around others, you're wearing a mask the whole time? Like, say, in a diner? You're either not always wearing a mask around others or you're not eating in diners. It's not both.

I want everyone to be keeping the number of people they are in contact with to a minimum (and not by just making others be in contact more) so that COVID transmission stops sooner, particularly any situations where there's not only a lack of social distancing but a lack of masks. It is possible to do things still. You, for example, could try reading a book. Or go for a walk if you want, we've already seen the only county you could possibly be in is very sparsely populated so you'd have lots of space where you wouldn't come into contact with others.

 

A lot of these leaders are under political pressure to re-open. Pressure from the business community...and it comes at the expense of ordinary people who suffer from higher rates of infection. Yes the economy will suffer, but that's the price we have to pay to save lives. The government can help simply by giving people money for free so they can stay afloat until the pandemic ends...the more the better.

I mean, do we value human life or not? Look at the extreme lengths that our military will go to in order to rescue downed pilots behind enemy lines. Or that doctors will go to in order to save a heart attack patient. If we can do that, shouldn't we be doing much more to protect people from COVID?

 

I feel like the whole thing explains why this is a country where rent-to-own businesses are so profitable. We're in such a bad state that the short term can't be managed in order to achieve effective long-term goals. So people spend $2000 on a $500 TV because they can afford the former but not the latter.

 

So, the good news is that some school districts in Texas are deciding to keep masks on despite Governor Abbott’s colossally evil Hail Mary play to distract from the energy grid issues. The bad news is that the district my Mom works for has decided to have “a survey” viewable only to the (elected) board of directors, which if I’ve learned anything from student complaint suppression practices at my graduate school is always code for “never releasing the results.” It’s likely the GOP controlled board will magically discover that not having masks is very popular with the staff.

 

Well they are under pressure because shutting down the economy endlessly takes a huge toll on people’s health and well being too. I know that COVID deaths are all the rage but long term shutdown have consequences and I suspect the victims of all of those problems won’t have any candlelight vigils. Hate to say this but the facts are that this virus is not dangerous for the overwhelming majority of those that contract it. It simply isn’t. It’s also very age specific along with pre existing conditions being two major factors for problems. So, to save lives you isolate and protect the weakest in your inner circles. And everyone else follows the local guidelines while out and about. That’s it. That’s reasonable.

Just paying everyone to stay home sounds good on paper but there is still a ton of work that must get done and things that need to be done. Society can’t just shut down for a year and we all just huddle together in our living rooms. How about food? Medical needs, and the thousands of other day to day things that have to get done? You can’t just flick a switch and turn OFF the country. The sacrifices made by most citizens, especially the medical personnel has been pretty astounding, IMO. What else would you have us do? What do you suggest?

@Lowbacca_1977 : You remember the Peanuts TV shows? Like Charlie Brown and stuff? When I read your text walls now all’s I hear in my head is the teachers voice that used to basically come out like "waaah, waaaah, waaaah". It’s just gibberish. So, I’m good, thanks.

 

I know that COVID deaths are all the rage

Possibly one of the most abhorrent statements I've read on these boards in a while

Over 500k of your fellow country men and women have died of a highly infectious but avoidable disease as a result of the actions (or lack of) taken by Trump and his right wing (GOP) lackeys. and as far as you're concerned these deaths are just the latest trend.
Covid 19 deaths, the trendsetters of 2020/21. Inability to breathe chic will be the next trend on the catwalks in Paris as blue tinged lips and ventilators come into fashion

 

Because Im tired of the baiting & condescending "dad" tone they take with me. Plenty of insults "cleverly" jammed in there too. Ive just had enough is all. Sorry you dont see it that way. Where are these Starbob and J-Rod people? Havent seen a single post from any of them. Did they get run out of town? . There is a lack of any differing opinions or viewpoints here. I wonder why that is? Its very one-note and thats OK but dont act like the red carpet gets vaccumed off for any whom arent mostly towing the line. The proof is in the replies. Again, its fine but it is as it is.

Its too bad ya'll dislike me since we've never actually met. Its just an internet forum. Im friends with plenty of people I dont agree with on everything.

Maybe a bad choice of words but my point is that there are severe ramifications which will not come to fruition until a ways down the road pertaining to the mitigation tactics used early on in places where said tactics were harsh. Skipped medical procedures, depression, starvation(search google about lockdowns and their effect on 3rd world hunger for actual data) and a whole bunch of unseen consequences. Thats what I meant. The way some of the media acts, its as if only Covid deaths matter and all others are just "too bad, life happens" type of things. I dont like the coverage with some of this. All life is sacred and matters.

 

Bob is robert martins and he posts all the time.

As for those ramifications of lockdowns, they do indeed suck and need attention. But are you aware that many people who had even mild cases of COVID are still experiencing long-term I'll effects? It freaking damages your brain. It may well shorten the lives of people with mild cases, we just don't know.... Because that's how novel viruses work.

 

God I hope we just find some reason to never open the border to the US again.

 

All the more reason to pay more attention to Covid and do everything possible to end the pandemic as quickly as possible. First, the more hospitals are clogged with Covid the harder it is to get anyone else care. There's likely a significant backlog of care and maybe it will cost lives.

Taking the pandemic seriously saves lives by freeing healthcare to do other life-saving things besides Covid care. Hospitalization rates from Covid and the deferral/ delay of non Covid care because of Covid are big stories.

 

Toronto? That's gross @anakinfansince1983, you deserve better. If you do get a chance to get up here BC, Quebec or the Atlantic Provinces are the beautiful places.

 

I signed up to get notifications about vaccine availability in my state, so when it's my turn, they'll let me know, I guess. I mean, I'd rather not until mom and dad get their vaccines first, but at the same time, I just want to get it over with. I'm excited, I suppose.

 

Ok, you have made a claim that a shutdown has a consequence in terms of deaths. We can already test this. Some places did do shutdowns to get COVID under control, like New Zealand and Melbourne. As you claim that you know what you're talking about when you say that there's a whole bunch of deaths that come from a shutdown, please show how many people died in those places because of their shutdowns. Again you've claimed there is a link between those two things, so provide that link.

You're veering heavily into eugenics. Which I'm sure you're comfortable with being. There's been around 100,000 people under the age of 65 that died in the last year and wouldn't have if not for COVID. A great many would have had many years left. And as 2020 saw hundreds of thousands of excess deaths, those are all representing people who would still be living, this isn't just finishing people off a couple weeks early. To say nothing of all the people that are still dealing with the consequences of it and haven't recovered, at many ages.

It is not true to say that COVID is "not dangerous for the overwhelming majority of those that contract it". 40% of adults in the US are at higher risk. It is dangerous for that population, even if it is not ultimately fatal.

No one is saying "a year". In fact, you've repeatedly been told that if handled correctly it can be done much shorter. Melbourne was 112 days. New Zealand was about a month. And the *essential* stuff would still happen. It's why it takes longer than it would otherwise. If we could just have absolutely no one go anywhere for a month or so, then we'd have most of COVID under control after that since the infection period is only a couple weeks. As it is, there's enough that would still be going on (like food and medicine) that would mean we'd just see a significantly reduced number of new cases but not a stop in transmission between households.

That combined with vaccinations would speed things up all the more though, but no one is just saying "we have to all stay home for the next year", you're making things up.

Boasting that you can't read complex sentences is not the cool thing you think it is. (It explains your poor responses though)

You'd still be treated as though you were an adult capable of intelligent discussion if you could or would act like one. Same reason why people that talk about how the moon is made of green cheese which is why we need a manned nacho program are brushed off and have their nonsense pointed out directly.
You just want to parrot self-centered nonsense you seem to have picked up somewhere than engage with any topic that doesn't protect your feelings. You're not here to have any actual discussions, as I believe you've all but admitted at this point.

Good plan. I still wish the US would close borders until this is under control. A year in, still hasn't happened.

 

So nice to see anti-science and general stupidity are rampant globally.