Awards 2005 Summer Post-Awards Discussion

When I said I understand the reasoning behind wanting to include only completed stories I meant that I understand some people feel they can't truly judge the "worth" of a story unless they see the completed product. If you'll notice, I did NOT say I supported that change. Two completely different things - being able to see the reasoning behind something you don't agree with and agreeing with it.

That is why I stated that I think the rule ought to stand as it is, with all stories being eligible for awards whether completed or not.


EDIT: I wanted to be clear that when I mentioned campaigning, I was NOT referring to asking for your readers to vote for your story in your own story thread. In your own story thread, you should be able to do what you want.

 

All right.

I don't care a thing about who won what award and who lost and how brilliant that author is or how terrible they are. Seriously, I don't.

What I do care about is making the Awards as fair as possible.

And frankly, at the moment, I don't think they're all that fair.

I liked hosting. Yes, I got busy. In June/July, my life pretty much fell apart. Everything that has been building up for the last nineteen years (my entire life, you could say) broke the dam. For awhile there, I was a wreck emotionally. But before all that happened, I promised Gina that I would co-host Beyond with her.

I don't go back on promises.

I did what I could. I stayed up till 1-4 am sometimes, so that I could respond to PMs and questions and everything when they needed me- not wait twelve hours until I got home from school, when everyone else was in bed. My health was shot- I didn't need to do that. I shouldn't have done that, except I wasn't going to let the others down.

I did have to go away, on a class trip, and I went. That was during the excerpts. When Gina and I knew that voting was about to start, we started discussing how we were going to work it. We made a form for the volunteers- if you want to see it, I will copy and past the PM for you- with detailed instructions of what to do.

The votes were combined into one PM and sent to either Gina or I. We both updated the Awards site. And during the beginning it was fine.

Then my parents reminded me that I had this class at the University. And because the University is too far away to travel by train every day and because I don't drive- legally blind, am not allowed to- I had to live there.

I thought it would be simple to get on the internet with my laptop.

As of yet, I still have not gotten on the internet with my laptop and the class has been on for four weeks and only has a week left.

Anyway, I carried the laptop around everywhere with me, trying to get a signal. I tried the Awards site on the library computer- won't work. It's a pain to get on these sites at times, even. There's wireless LAn in the library, but only for 'official' students, which I apparently am not, so I can't get on.

What should I do?

I had to beg and plead my parents to let me come home sometimes, so I could get on the internet at home and update the site. I even missed an icredibly important choir rehearsal and had my mother fuming at me because I updated the votes. But I knew I had to- because I had this committment.

Finally, it was the last week and I couldn't get home. I get home on Saturday, two hours before the huge performance. I had a solo and I hadn't really practiced it, because I had missed that rehearsal, so I could update the Awards. So I had to rehearse on Saturday. As well as get dressed and eat and actually drive to the site where I was performing.

My mother was livid at me half of the time, because I kept on coming in wrong, because I didn't practice that much with the group. This was a solo in front of 1000 people from Germany and various South American countries. It was the lead in to World Youth Day, which the pope is attending this week. And while I did a decent job, it wasn't my best.

It sucks to have that knowledge that it wasn't my best. But I had put the Awards first, because that committment I had made in May, not in July like I did the singing. I was there until 10 pm. Finally at 10:45 we get home. I race up to my room still in my performance clothing and turn on the computer and get counting the Awards. Gina and I were PMing each other back and forth and opened AIM to discuss even more, because we didn't have the possibility before then.

At midnight, the Awards started. Yes, I was tired. But to leave then? It didn't matter how exhausted I was, I learned as a child that when you make a committment, you keep it. I've sang in concerts when I didn't have a voice. In March, we sang the Matthäus Passion in an important concert and I didn't have a v

 

Wow. There is more angst in here than one of Ishy's fics! (and that is her specialty) I would like to say thank you to the volunteers and all the writer's again. I was only able to attend the Beyond ceremonies (and not long at that) so perhaps I missed something important to this discussion but I found it to be a pleasant experience. I thought it was all in good fun but then I am very new to these boards. Was I mistaken? Was there something worth all this drama?

 

Alethia: I want you to understand that I am appreciative of the time and effort you did put into awards. It was a lot of work. And I am truly sorry for the DRL you experienced. Lesson learned though - ask for help. No one would think the worse of an organizer for admitting that some part of Real Life needs to take precedence over an internet awards show. No one. Also, you had tons of volunteers - there is such thing as delegation. every single one of us has been kicked to the curb by DRL at one time or another. We've felt your pain, and feel for you.

What I want you to understand is that while I was disappointed in the outcome of the ByTS awards, I was more so by the attitude expressed by you as an organizer. Even prior to the awards you were very critical of so-called campaigning. If there was such thing at the time then you should have taken evidence to the mods and let them handle it. Really, if campaigning had been a problem there would have been a stink all over the boards about it. There hasn't been though, so I don't think there is a problem with individuals campaigning like you perceive.

Also, it's hard to see someone organizing an event yet at the same time say it's not that important, which you made clear in posts far earlier than the actual ceremony and then again after. For the Beyond folks that's tough to hear, especially in light of how the ceremony turned out. For some people the awards are a big deal, simply getting nominated is stellar after blood and sweat and heart have gone into writing, and those same people want the hosts to think so too.

No, I don't agree with your suggestion about the winners stepping back, but my issue is not with that suggestion at all. If you look at my last post, it's entirely on the matter that you were extremely harsh to ONE individual, ONE winner, in your posts to this thread. And in doing so, you certainly destroyed some of the fun of those wins. Souderwan is only guilty of being enthusiastic about his writing. He didn't play Jedi mind tricks on anyone to win.

You know what, we all learn lessons in life. Perhaps newbies are seeing that being too enthusiastic about nominations is a bad thing, especially if you end up winning. I bet there isn't a person on these boards who can say they didn't learn something about the ways of TFN the hard way. I hope that you can learn that in the future it's okay to ask for help, and that when you are in the limelight as lead on a project what you say does matter.

 

Can I ask a favor of us in this thread?

At no time should we be making posts directed at an individual, if at all possible. This thread is for good, objective, non-personal discussion of what we did and didn't like about the awards. I like for us to keep individual's names out of posts as I don't want this to lead to anything negative or hurt feelings. Give constructive cristicism for the awards ceremony and things surrounging the awards. If you feel something (in any post) is directed at you personally it is best to take to PM with the person who posted what you find might be concerning you. If you'd rather not do that, PM a mod.

Let's discuss how to make the next awards an even bigger success than this year's tremendous success. Thanks, guys!!!

 

And then we started discussing the winners and I mentioned how it seemed to me that many of the same people won over and over again, and how when so many different people were nommed, it was a bit strange to me.




Strange how? Isn't it possible that the reason this happens is that those same people consistantly turn out good work and their readers want to acknowledge them for it? That seems pretty fair to me under the current rules we have. Suggesting that these authors be penalized for turning out good work just so things look fair to certain people is something I for one don't agree with or understand. And TKL I agree 100% with what you said.

 

Actually, I think you'll see cycles of winners. It seems that in one awards, one writer will sweep and the next time around, not so much. Since writers tend to drift in an out of the boards, we usually end up with a fairly good mixture of winners and nominees. There were MANY names on the winners' and nominees' lists this time around that weren't even registered at the last awards.

 

This is true. I was pleased with the balance there seemed to be of new and old, myself. And I think everyone that won deserved their award, we have some outstanding writers!

 

Hey! Who you calling old?!

 

Um...Hmmm...Well...

 

I also agree with TKL.

And OE, you are old...

 

Once you hit three years old on these boards you're OVER TEH HILL!

Now stop rousing the rabble, missy, and go back to your wheelchair.

 

Well I'm old and I'm proud of it!

 

With age comes experience.

 

Don't remind her, diane. Well, maybe you should. She's old, she forgets.

Okay, here's yet another wild idea being thrown out.

A few people said earlier that the Winter Awards would be hard to help out with, because of school and finals. Even taking the time to nom and vote seems to conflict with RL? More so than summer, anyway.

So what about leaving the all-around Awards for summer, and bringing back something like the OC Awards for winter? The OC Awards seem to be smaller and less hectic - though that's just a guess. Anyone who worked on them is free to tell me I'm wrong. It would be nice to give the OCs some glory.

But it doesn't help that you forget what that experience is with age!

 

That's a really good idea. Just call me "yes woman", as I don't seem to have any of my own.

And Jade, I was blissfully ignoring that part...

 

I like the idea. And I am not........ Whatever it is you all are calling me.

 

I assume "ignoring" is a euphamism for "I forgot."

I foresee getting beat up by crotchety old people in my future...

 

I like the idea of OC awards... and I agree it'd be lots less hectic during school days.

And, probably should have done this loooong ago, but for everyone who put time and sweat into awards. I know I'd never have the guts to organize something that big, even if I had the time.

 

Yes, OE is old. I think we can all agree with that.

The only problem with having the Awards once a year is that people forget the older stories. I noticed a lot of fics nominated were much newer but the older also-deserving ones were ignored/not-mentioned. Plus just looking for fics to nominate in the Saga board, I went back 64 pages (at 25 posts per page) before I got to the inelegibility date. And I can't believe that people would got back 100 pages or more to nominate something if you only did it once a year. Just a thought.

 

Maybe have people shamelessly up their stories just before the nom period? Kidding!

Maybe encourage people to somehow keep lists as they read throughout the year? Or maybe people will start posting their fics closer to awards time, like the way studios don't release big movies until late fall, so people will remember them for the upcoming Oscars.

If we do the awards once a year, we could split categories like Best Epic/Short Story/Series into Completed and In Progress. That might open the field up a little bit more and get people looking for the older stories.

 

Eh? Can't hear you. Speak up! *pokes Diane's hoverchair with cane*

Old WIse One does have a point. MOst of the stories nommed were newer and most people aren't going to have the time to slog through pages of threads. Jade's suggestion has merit and I think we used to do that. Have categories for completed and in progress stories.

 

I know I haven?t posted here much, but I sort of wanted to stay out of it. But my stubborn and troublemaking side is coming out to play now.

I volunteered for the BytS awards. I counted noms for 2 days, updated lists, and sent out PMs. I stayed up for 3 days in a row. It?s a LOT of work, as any volunteer can tell you. Were the awards perfect? No, but a lot of hard work went into them, so please have respect for those that made them possible. To hear people complaining about something you worked so hard for is frustrating to no end.

Now that that is said?

WIP eligibility:

I think that they should be eligible. The stories mean just as much to their authors as the completed stories do so why shouldn?t they receive an award if their story is of good quality? If people like it and feel it deserves something, why shouldn?t they receive the same treatment the completed stories do? The completed stories are no better than the WIPs. It?s an interesting idea, which could cut down on traffic and time, but I don?t feel it would work out too well.

I think that both types should be included just as they are now. They are together in the same categories, and I think that works just fine.

OC Awards:

I?m not sure I agree with having the OC awards in the winter. I like being able to sit down and relax at the awards. I find them fun and fascinating. To be perfectly honest, I don?t read much fanfic so I don?t many OCs. I?m not sure it would be as fun as the regular awards. It?s a very good and efficient idea, but I?m being selfish right now. I know not everyone has Christmas break, nor for as long as others do, but what if they were put on at that time? People who travel could be a problem, but what if the awards were put on early or late in Christmas break? Or Thanksgiving break for that matter. Just an idea, don?t shoot me.

Splitting the Awards:

I disagree with that. I like the awards in one piece and feel it would cheapen the awards if they were to be split up. Time and length is a major concern, of course, but if we could come up with a way to shorten the time of the awards, there would be no reason to split them up. I, for one, am completely against it. In the most humble of terms of course.

Campaigning:

I personally don?t agree with campaigning and find it rather arrogant and rude. However, there is a fine line between being enthusiastic and campaigning. If you?re enthusiastic, that?s wonderful! You completely deserve to be, it?s such an honor! But if one were to go around saying, ?I?d really appreciate your votes? or ?My story is nommed for Best Drama, be sure to vote for it!? That?s bad. I even received a PM last awards saying ?Remember, if don?t vote for my story, it can?t win.? But if someone said, ?If you think I?m doing a good job with my story, keep it in mind during the nomination period. Thanks!? that?s okay because it?s not telling anyone to vote for it. Especially if that person does it in his/her own story, because it is their story thread.

Like TKL said, there is no magical will that forces others to vote for the story, so it must have at least been good, right?

Best Oldbie Author:

I'd rather have Best New Author and Best Author separate. Maybe change Best Author to Best Oldbie Author? Oldbie basically being anyone not eligible for New Author

I think that is a wonderful suggestion, Jade. I would love to see it next awards. What would be considered ?oldbie?? How long would that person have to be on the boards?

Sticky/Exec. Producer:

Sticky thread for all the rules and dates and whatnot - I'm sure we can handle that, since by the next awards, we should all have stickying powers. If we use that, along with an Executive Producer for the awards - if that person's not a mod, perhaps that can be the person who PMs us with updates for the sticky? That way we know the info's been cleared with the rest of the hosts, and no confusion.

Again, Jade, wonderful suggestion. The sti

 

I do want to mention that we did put up the previous six months' worth of stories' indexes on each thread. Some of the indexes were more complete than others, but VadersMistress and I did make it possible to find some older stories. If we DO decide to do the awards once a year, something like that could be done again.