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Arena The Madness Has Begun!: NCAA Basketball Discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Dal--Intrepid, Nov 17, 2006.

  1. Dal--Intrepid

    Dal--Intrepid Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Oh yeah, I'm in that category too. Sometimes the best teams win championships. Sometimes a decent team gets hot at the right time and wins a championship. Sometimes a mediocre teams lets the rest of the field do the work for them and then they win the championship. Florida is the latter.

    There are perennial also-rans in college basketball: Florida, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Pittsburgh, etc. They are teams that are always competitive, always good in their conference, and generally get that 4th #1 seed in the tourney after the UNC, Dook, Kentucky, Connecticut, Kansas, Arizona teams sort out their business. But they just don't win it all. Last year Florida finally did, but I just chalk it up to the law of averages suggesting someone was bound to do it sooner or later. Sort of like one day the #16 seed is gonna beat a #1 based on nothing more than it has to happen eventually.
     
  2. Dan

    Dan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 1999
    The Gators are not even healthy. Brewer, the glue of the team, is out indefinitely with mono. Noah has an upper respiratory infection.

    We played two horrible, horrible games and still nearly won both of them. When they get healthy, the Gators will be a dangerous team.

    To say they are not a legitimate top-10 team when healthy is laughable. Did you watch the tourney last year?
     
  3. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    holy --, it's Dan!
     
  4. Dal--Intrepid

    Dal--Intrepid Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    I saw the tourney. I saw George Mason do all the heavy-lifting. I saw Florida play a bunch of lower seeds, then beat the weakest #1 in the field. Then they finally played a decent game against a mediocre opponent to win the title in what was widely hailed the most boring Final Four of recent memory. That doesn't take away from the fact Florida won it all, it just illustrates the old adage that the sun even shines on a dog's *** once in a while.
     
  5. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    Did you watch the tourney last year?

    Yep. And it only confirmed what I said all last season (I've been talking about how overrated Florida is since LAST November, and stand by it). See what Dal said above.

    I've said this plenty of times before, and I'll say it again: beating horrible no-name teams by 50 or 60 doesn't mean anything. Might as well schedule high school teams. At least they had the guts this year to schedule Kansas and Ohio State, nobody else on their nonconference schedule is worth mentioning. Most good programs know how to schedule some decent mid-majors in there, Florida seems to like scheduling teams that are almost winless into January (had two of those last year, I think they were a combined 3-30 something when Florida played them).

    And mark it down, Florida plays Ohio State on the 23rd, I say OSU wins in a blowout. Maybe UF'll get lucky, but I doubt it.
     
  6. Dan

    Dan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 1999
    Hey KW. :D

    Florida destroyed every team they played in that tournament. They played extremely well in the SEC tournament (including wins over Final Four LSU and an underrated USC).

    While everybody looked anemic in the tournament, Florida shined. They would have beat anybody in that last 3-4 weeks of the season last year. I don't know, but beating LSU (who also took out Duke), Nova (who cares if they are a weak #1 seed [face_laugh]), UCLA, Georgetown, and a George Mason team that seemed to beat everyone (except UF - they lost by double digits) with a bunch of sophomores seems impressive to me. I don't know what you mean by finally playing a "decent game" against UCLA - we destroyed all of those opponents by double digits, except Georgetown, in a matter of weeks.

    They were without a doubt the best team at the end of the year, when it mattered. And for that, they deserved to go into this season #1. It was deserved.

    This season... well, it's December. We look terrible, except against that patsies. We are not healthy. I will judge our team during the SEC schedule when we are (hopefully) going at full speed. That OSU game should be fun though. They will probably beat us, but I'm not seeing a blowout.

    I wouldn't mind flying under the radar again, then turning it on when it matters most, just like last year. We'll see.
     
  7. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    LSU was a decent team last year, not great, but they had the matchup advantage on Duke and were able to capitalize on it - I had the potential Duke-LSU matchup circled as a major trouble one for Duke when I was filling out my brackets. Other than that, LSU was lucky to get by Texas. But LSU and Florida didn't meet in the NCAAs anyways.

    Florida played USC three times last year, losing at USC, losing at home, and nearly losing in the SEC tourney, in one that came down to a last second shot. And this to a team that went 4-10 against the rest of the SEC, getting swept by Georgia, Tennessee, and Kentucky, and only beating Vandy once in OT. And this is not a case of matchup problems, as on paper, Florida should have matched up very well against us. So while I appreciate your calling USC underrated, I have to be honest about that - USC did not play well last year until March and the NIT rolled around.
    (Speaking of USC, we beat College of Charleston 67-55 tonight and finally hit some outside shots, and I was glad we gave Bobby Cremins a nice standing ovation. But in all honesty, while I'm a huge fan and will stay that way, this team has its work cut out for it if we're going to even make it back to the NIT this year, let alone the NCAA. I'm pretty sure the NCAA tourney is just out of reach unless they REALLY step it up big time, which I don't see happening.)

    Nova looked horrible when they played Florida. They looked tired, lazy, sloppy, and not at all like the team that earned the #1 seed in the regular season. I thought UCLA was overrated all year, and I still think I was right in that - not sure about this year because I haven't really seen them yet, but time will tell. George Mason had a phenomenal run, but everybody knew they were performing WAY over their heads and that it wouldn't last, and lo and behold, after 4 great wins, they ran out of gas and played like the George Mason everybody expected in round one.

    IMO, Florida won the championship by default - it wasn't so much them going out there and winning the tourney as everyone else coming out flat and losing it. I don't think theres any way that happens again this year.

    Plus, one final note on Florida for now: Last year their best quality was that they did play like a team for the vast majority of their games, and were a very unselfish team. However, with so many players now looking at the NBA in the immediate future (Noah, Brewer, Horford, Green) I don't think theres any way this really repeats itself, as the players start trying to boost their individual stock for the draft. That nearly cost UNC their title a couple years ago, but they really did have enough pure talent to overcome that. Florida's got some talent, but not NEARLY as much as that. I don't think they can overcome it when the players start thinking draft.

    Btw, while I'm thinking about it, I'll go ahead and say that even though I'm a Duke fan and will remain that way, I actually liked that UNC team, because they really were an incredibly fun to watch. Not that I was going to pull for them against Duke or anything, but I enjoyed watching Felton, May, McCants, and Marvin Williams (among others) work. Especially Felton.
     
  8. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    =D==D=

    Well said, Rogue.

    Now, that being said, I think Florida has the capacity to have more talent this season than last, if they get Brewer back quickly and keep Noah healthy. However, I doubt we'll see another George Mason conveniently knocking out the top seed Huskies for them this year, but who knows.
     
  9. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    Oh, I certainly think they'll have more talent this year, given who they lost (nobody important) and that they do have some freshmen, as I recall, though I don't know any of them. I just don't think they'll have as good of a season with people gunning for them, and I agree with heels in that I don't think theres any way we have another George Mason this year.

    Question: Had George Mason somehow pulled off two more wins (i.e., won it all), and the whole team came back, would they be a unanimous #1? I highly, highly doubt it.
     
  10. rechedelphar

    rechedelphar Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2004
    they might not even be in the top 15 in the preseason polls.
    I'm hoping that this week Clemson cracks the top 25 for the first time 1999
     
  11. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    they might not even be in the top 15 in the preseason polls.

    Exactly. They might, but I certainly wouldn't guarantee it.

    I'm hoping that this week Clemson cracks the top 25 for the first time 1999

    They certainly have a chance to. They've been pretty impressive so far this year.
     
  12. rechedelphar

    rechedelphar Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2004
    I would be legendary had George Mason won but it would not have helped them in the long run. Recruits would still choose top programs over George Mason. It would have been a great folk lore legend but George Mason basketball program would have stayed the same.
     
  13. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    I wouldn't say it would be unchanged. Their recruiting would certainly have been improved in the few years - actually, it may be slightly improved as it is - and that can help build the basis for a much improved program in the long run. See what Gonzaga's done, for example. You think players like Adam Morrison or Ronny Turiaf or some of the other very good players they've had in the last few years (and from what I've seen of him, we might be adding Josh Heytvelt, a sophomore there now to that list soon) would have gone there if they hadn't gotten the publicity from NCAA runs?

    I'm not saying that GM would have suddenly turned into a powerhouse overnight, but it could easily have helped build it into at least a mid-major power.
     
  14. Dal--Intrepid

    Dal--Intrepid Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Gonzaga is proof that the media can create a program; and that it was on the West Coast just made it that much more appealing to the media who is doing there best to kill the myth of the West Coast bias. (There is no bias; there's just not as much competitive college basketball on the other coast :p ). That is not a slight to Mark Few who is a heckuva coach and really has helped turn the program around, but the national media has been the best recruiter for Gonzaga for the last 5 years. George Mason has had a run that Gonzaga would love, but GMU will need to demonstrate some consistency before they can hope for half the media love that Gonzaga gets.
     
  15. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    There is no bias; there's just not as much competitive college basketball on the other coast

    Oh, I agree completely there.

    he national media has been the best recruiter for Gonzaga for the last 5 years.

    True, but why did the media choose Gonzaga? Because they were a cinderella in the NCAAs a few times. It all starts there.

    George Mason has had a run that Gonzaga would love, but GMU will need to demonstrate some consistency before they can hope for half the media love that Gonzaga gets.

    Also true. But again, they've gotten a start, and while I don't think it will be enough to propel George Mason as much as Gonzaga's come, but I do think that they will have an improved program after this.


    And speaking of George Mason, they lost to Duke 69-53 today at Cameron. McRoberts looked really good passing the ball (8 assists) but still wasn't aggressive enough offensively. Still, DeMarcus Nelson had 24 points, and I think he's established himself as Duke's go-to guy at least until McRoberts starts really getting aggressive. Jon Scheyer also had 18 points, he looks to be the clear 3rd option scoring wise behind Nelson and McRoberts. Scheyer's also looking more comfortable handling the ball, which is nice to see.

    USC plays at Baylor tonight, it may be on TV (FSS, which is why I say may, because I don't trust them an inch) but I'll be out for the evening so I won't get to see it. Hopefully Brandis Raley-Ross and Dominique Archie continue their recent good play.

    USC should also find out soon if we'll get Chad Gray (our top recruit, didn't get accepted because he was at least briefly at a somewhat questionable school - not one of those thats been officially named by the NCAA but one they've looked at, but if his grades at Midlands Tech are good enough, he'll play here starting Dec 21)... that would really help our depth, which right now is nonexistant.
     
  16. Dal--Intrepid

    Dal--Intrepid Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Watched UK/Indiana's 2nd half today. It was a pretty good game. Lots of rough defensive play, but the refs let them play so it was entertaining to watch.

    Roy Williams goes for career win #500 tonight against High Point. No TV for it though. UNC is gonna hit it's pre-ACC cupcake crew now with High Point, FAMU, Buffalo, and UNC-A. They generally try to schedule the tougher teams earlier, then slip in this weak portion of the schedule to coincide with exams.

    I'm watching UCLA/Texas A&M and it's been a heckuva game. I know zip about A&M, so it's nice to get a look at them. If they could hang on to the rock, they'd probably be winning this game at half time.
     
  17. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    No TV for it though.

    Wow, thats rare for UNC. They and Duke (among others) are usually on TV every single game.
     
  18. TheLighterSide

    TheLighterSide Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
     
  19. Dal--Intrepid

    Dal--Intrepid Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002

    Yeah, they're on some sort of ACC Select internet thing tonight. It's a pay deal, so I'll pass.

    The CBS announcers just mentioned that today is the first time Texas A&M has ever been nationally broadcasted in basketball for a regular season game in school history. Right now they're hanging tough, but they're just being too loose with the ball and UCLA is making them pay.
     
  20. s65horsey

    s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Not bad for the Aggies only losing by three to the team that handed them the worst loss in school history at one point. I must say I'm impressed with our expanding basketball program. Our coach is doing an excellent job. He needs to give Fran some pointers.
     
  21. rechedelphar

    rechedelphar Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Roy Williams goes for career win #500 tonight against High Point. No TV for it though. UNC is gonna hit it's pre-ACC cupcake crew now with High Point, FAMU, Buffalo, and UNC-A. They generally try to schedule the tougher teams earlier, then slip in this weak portion of the schedule to coincide with exams.

    Buffalo is no cupcake they lost today to Pitt by 3 and made the tourney last year
     
  22. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    UNC took care of them easily enough though. Not surprising.

    USC beat Baylor 64-59, Tre Kelley scored 26 to lead the team to victory. I had a message from a friend during the second half where he mentioned we were down by 7 (I was at the Nutcracker ballet with a bunch of friends, this was right before it started), I just said "Tre, take over. Tre, take over." Apparently he did :p
     
  23. ApolloSmileGirl

    ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Knight star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Was it a decent performance of the Nutcracker?
     
  24. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    Yeah, it was pretty good. A couple of the little kids (like one of the mice) in it slipped and I guess didn't know what to do, but that was kinda funny (she seemed to be ok) and the rest of it was pretty good.
     
  25. rechedelphar

    rechedelphar Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2004
    hopefully this 13 day layoff won't hurt Clemson.