CT 4K UHD OT

Maybe this has been discussed somewhere, but I couldn't find it. I was just wondering if the 4K UHD versions of the Original Trilogy are worth getting. I've got the Blu-Ray versions (plus the 1997 Special Editions plus the 1986 VHS tapes). So, is the video quality that much better than the HD versions? Do they are anything, or do any more messing around with the movie itself, or is the movie just a slightly higher quality version of the Blu-Rays (e.g., Greedo still shoot, Darth Vader still screams "no", etc.)?

 

The color grading is vastly different than that of the blu rays (most would say for the better) . In 2004 the color grading was changed for the dvds, the 2011 blu rays used that same color grading, but the UHD somewhat restores the color grading to where it was pre 2004.

 

Yes it's worth it. They are a major step up in video quality from the older Blu-rays and DVDs.

 

Thanks. You're convincing me. Any scene changes from the Blu-Rays? If I get them, I'll wind up getting the Amazon Prime video version, since I don't have a 4K DVD player.

 

I thought they looked incredible on 4k. An impressive step upward from the old Blu-rays.

 

I haven't watched the new versions, but from what I've seen the colors are way too washed out. Maybe it's because I've grown used to them, but I much prefer the 2004/Bluray colors, even though they may not be perfect. But I love the bright vibrant colors.

 

There are some new minor changes.

But you don't need a 4K player to enjoy the new 4K remasters since they are also available on regular Blu-ray and even DVD.

 

there’s no new scenes or adjustments afaik, besides the color grading. But yes, they just pop.

 

There's a shot of Greedo having the last word in the cantina and a new shield generator explosion on Hoth. The rest is even more minor and unnoticeable.

 

Maclunkey.

 

Neither have I seen them, and I have also seen several screen shots (they may have been supplied by you actually) , and my impression is that some of the shots look better and some look worse, and I do agree that some of the colors look too muted. But Hoth does seem to look more natural (even though I did like the blue tint added in 2004).

 

You know what Alexrd? I completely forgot to confirm that these blu rays were the same masters as the 4ks. Thanks! I went out to go buy A New Hope 4k and watch the blu ray on my 720p plasma tv and OPPO blu ray player. And I have to say overall it is definitely an improvement over the 2011 blu ray. Yes, in some shots the colors do appear a bit muted. But the colors are also very balanced and natural. C3P0 no longer flickers while he is walking through the desert. Uncle Owen no longer has purple hair. Luke's skin no longer glows in the dark. I like to reconcile the muted colors by remembering that this is taking place during the post apocalyptic period in the galaxy, so maybe the colors shouldnt pop out the way they do in the prequels. Perhaps my OPPO is mollifying the effect of the muted colors, and perhaps the HDR on 4k will mollify it even more. It does indeed appear that a slight amount of DNR has been applied, but it is a very small amount of DNR and very skillfully applied, and no where near as bad as TPM DNR (which wasnt as bad as other blu rays either). As a result there is ever so slightly less detail than the 2011 blu ray, but it is an extremely small difference. As an added bonus the Special Edition CGI blends in much better with the practical elements. Could be because of a combination of the more balanced colors and DNR. For SE detractors and OT purists, this is probably the closest Disney and Lucasfilm will ever get the OT to the way it originally looked.

 

Yeah, I like the new remasters. ANH and ROTJ benefited the most from it in my opinion.

These are also the last versions Lucas supervised before he left (who knows if they are the last).

 

OK, I've ordered a 4K DVD player and the OT DVD's. Should be here by the end of the week.

 

They need to be the 2020 DVD releases, otherwise you'll get the 2011 versions.

 

I noticed that if you have the movies purchased in iTunes, my SW saga movies have all been upgraded to 4k/HDR/Dolby Vision/Atmos. I was happy to see that.

 

ROTJ is by far the best of the new remasters. EMPIRE is not bad either but probably the least of them. For some reason on EMPIRE the DNR was more noticeable and distracting. But I liked the more natural colors of Hoth and Dagobah. Only big complaint is these remasters really should have been done for the 2011 blu ray release. Im really starting to wonder if the color timing change in 2004 subconsciously fueled more hate for the SE.

 

I don't think so, specially when compared to what we had at the time. As far as I'm concerned, that original DVD release was a revelation.

By 2011, those HD masters were simply showing their age though, and that's more noticeable now when we have something to compare it to. The color vibrance and contrast were greatly increased in the 2004 versions, while the new color timing is more subdued and "natural". I'm still not sure about some interior shots in Cloud City, but overall it's an improvement.

 

Yes, that's the first thing I noticed. They look like the "older" versions of the films, despite still being the Special Editions. It’s most noticeable with ANH, I think.

 

You both bring up great points. I do think the 2004 master hurt reception of the films subconsciously when it was used as the basis for the 2011 BluRays. There is more to that than color grading.

The 2004 cuts of the movies had very creative color grading. The movies never looked like that before. They never looked like that on home video before. Never looked like that in theaters. Also due to time constraints the 2004 versions were rushed. The masters weren’t completed so much as released the best they could be in the time available.

Some people really didn’t like the new look of the movies in 2004 - that was controversial. When the 4K cuts came out 15 years later in 2019 on Disney+, those versions are from an all new mastering process that goes back to the original color grading. But for people who loved the color grade used since 2004 - they really didn’t like the original look - so that was controversial too.

The original plan was to premier the OT on DVD after Revenge of the Sith was complete. Probably in fall of 2006. As a victory lap after completing the prequels George Lucas would have taken a year going over all six movies to make new editions for all six movies as part of a complete saga release.

Then two things happened, Attack of the Clones was not as financially successful as hoped and a new 1080 resolution home video format was expected by 2006. So in fall 2003 the DVDs moved to a fall 2004 release. This would help build buzz for Revenge of the Sith and revive Star Wars in general. It would also maximize profits for the DVD format without leaving money on the table.

Lucas’s home video philosophy was to have a format sell his movies, not have his movies sell the format. Basically that means Star Wars is released later in a format’s life when most people already own the player and just need to buy the movies. But Lucas waited almost too late into DVDs life to release the OT.

So in late fall 2003 the DVDs were rushed into production for an early fall 2004 release with a very short window for production. Too small a window of time to master three movies. Return of the Jedi was so rushed there are actual errors in the transfer.

It also appears that the 2004 cuts were mastered with DVD in mind. Mastered for Standard Definition CRT TVs. Choices with color grading and grain reduction were made to optimize how they looked on those TVs. And those choices seem to made in the HD master. There wasn’t an general HD restoration of the films that were then mastered specifically for DVD. The DVD versions are the restoration.

The BluRay was made by remastering the 2004 master that was optimized for DVD. Digital noise reduction scrubbed away the real film grain in the 2004 master. So the BluRay has artificial film grain added to the films. Once you recognize fake digital film grain it will really bug you. It also means a lot of detail is missing. Scrubbed away.

The DVD color grading is burned into the 2004 master. So the color grading in the 2011 BluRays are often regrading the 2004 colors to look not be so extreme and look more like the original grading. The effect of all this is a muddled picture quality with a layer of digital noise clouding everything.

Lastly any errors due to the rushed 2004 transfer are in the 2011 release. One entire reel of Return of the Jedi is out of focus. From the shuttle leaving the rebel fleet until the speeder bike chase is slightly blurry.

The 2019 4k release is an all new transfer made around 2011 to 2012 for a 3D release of the Original Trilogy. It’s the most detailed Star Wars has ever looked on home video. It’s amazing the textures and shapes you’ll see. Right from the start with the rebel troopers. The weave of their pants is visible. The battered metal of R2-D2. And return of the Jedi finally not being rushed looks like it was reshot frame for frame compared to 2011.

The 2019 cut on Blu-ray looks amazing. The 4K versions are also amazing, but they are made from the new 2011 or 2012 masters. That’s not exactly how a master for a 4K disc would be made today. They don’t look as cutting edge as other new 4K disc releases because they aren’t. These were 8 years old before they were released.

I’m a huge fan of the 2019 versions. The colors look like these did before 2004. The special edition effects blend in much more seamlessly. The audio is the best it’s ever been.

 

Very good info Sith Smuggler. I agree with Alexrd that the OT dvds looked fantastic when they were released in 2004. They made the movies look like they had been made within the past 5 years, rather than 25 years prior. And I actually liked the new color grading at the time. But when that same master was used for the 2011 blu ray it just didnt look that great. And your post seems to explain why. By the way, that OT dvd release in September of 2004 made the wait for Revenge of the Sith much easier. Watching those dvds made me feel like I was watching the OT for the first time all over again.

 

Thanks for this. This is one of the most concise and complete explanations of SW's history on home video I've seen. It's hard to find any information on these issues without heavy-handed, unfounded Lucas-bashing.

 

You’re welcome. And thank you. That’s high praise!

 

I just picked up a ps5 with a 4k disc player. I need to get the 9 film 4k box set.

 

I don't have the discs or a 4K tv, but I've watched them on Disney+. As far as I could see, the actual clarity and sharpness of the picture quality is not really any better than my blu ray versions (perhaps only slightly improved in just a few shots). Regarding the color grading, I am kind of tied with this. I do love that the color grading is much more natural in the 4K versions; people's skin tones are more natural, tattooine desert shots look much better, the whites are purer white (without the grey or blue hue) and the blacks are deeper. However, there are certain shots that now seem just a bit...dull. For example, in many shots on Tattooine, although the desert looks more natural, the sky no longer really appears blue-mostly just a cloudy white with a hint of blue. Also, in certain shots in locations like the Death Star or inside a Star Destroyer, the colors seem more faded and mostly grey. In the blu ray versions, the color palette was more distinct, which is especially helpful in scenes with a lot of grey and brown. Perhaps that could be adjusted though depending on TV color settings.

I noticed that the 4K versions also somewhat fixed the biggest issue I had with the effects in the OT: the lightsabers! Now with the 4K versions, in MOST sequences the original colors are restored which is nice, but it still isn't consistent. This means Luke's lightsaber is blue again on the Falcon in ANH, and Darth Vader's lightsaber is crimson red and not pink in ESB and ROTJ which is fantastic. However, IMO the 4K somewhat dampens the blue glow of Obi-Wan's and Luke's lightsabers, making them an overly flat, somewhat faded (almost white in some ESB shots) blade. Also, mainly in ESB, the white cores of the blades are more fuzzy and less distinct. This is one part where I felt the blu ray versions were actually better: Luke's lightsaber had a deeper blue tone and the white core was more distinct. This is why I wish they would simply go thru all the films and redo the lightsaber effects, making them consistent throughout the saga. Even the ST has inconsistent lightsaber effects! I don't know why this has been so hard!

I would eventually like to see what they look like on actual discs though, with an actual 4K TV. Perhaps that's part of why they don't look as good as they could to me...?