A Certain Point of View - Movieverse Obi-Wan - Ep. III spoilers allowed! New topic 6/12

Hmm... I suppose that this extremely gungho pursuit of a bad guy into a busy store could be considered a tad reckless.

CC is fine with me.

sg

PS: solojones I'll come back and comment more on your other post over the weekend, right now I have to get to bed. Getting up REALLY early tomorrow morning for an agility trial.

From Chapter 9 of The Force That Binds Episode I Knightshift

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Inside of Ogby's Department store, the PD-10 droid's legs whirred and kicked as Volacca held her by the neck with one massive hand and raised her into the air. "oh...oh, my..." she said, anticipating a long trip to the repair center in her future. "Perhaps some Berask Musk would suit sir better?"

Just then Obi-Wan rushed in, catching Volacca's attention. "You!" He said, igniting his blue lightsaber. "Put the droid down!"

Volacca snarled at Obi-Wan, his sharp yellow teeth gleaming. Out of the corner of his eye, he noted the store's escalator not far away. He threw the struggling droid straight at Obi-Wan and ran for the second floor. PD-10 screamed as she flew threw the air at the Jedi. With a smooth swoop of his lightsaber Obi-Wan cut her in half at the waist - causing her to land in 2 pieces on either side of him.

Her perfume containment units leaked from her upper half as her bottom half still whirred and kicked a few feet away. Tiny sparks crackled from the severed wires of her interworkings dangerously close to the flammable liquid. "Oh, dear..."

Customers on the escalator were quick to jump out of the creature's way, some leaping over the handrail to the side heading downward. To avoid the panicking customers, Obi-Wan leapt 20 feet into the air to the upper floor - pushing off and over the railing before landing gracefully on his feet. Lightsaber still ignited, he continued his pursuit of the blue menace.

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spiritgurl

Just then Obi-Wan rushed in,

All right, just the fact that he rushes on in instead of taking the time to probe what?s going on in the room or something is evidence of the headstrong attitude Qui-Gon speaks of him having at this time. I think at this point near the end of being a padawan, Obi-Wan *is* wise when it comes to things that he has time to think about. But when he gets into that kind of combative, battle-ready mode, he loses some of his wits That?s probably the unifying v. living Force thing, huh?

And of course he ignites his lightsabre right off the bat instead of trying anything else. This reminded me of how, while Qui-Gon is meditating in the hallway getting ready to face Maul, Obi-Wan just goes ahead and gets his sabre ready to fight

"Put the droid down!"

?

PD-10 screamed as she flew threw the air at the Jedi. With a smooth swoop of his lightsaber Obi-Wan cut her in half at the waist - causing her to land in 2 pieces on either side of him.

I found this bit of irony pretty funny So it?s ok for you to slice up the droid to protect yourself, but not for someone else to snatch up an innocent droid, Obi-Wan? Uh huh. Just try talking your way out of this one

Tiny sparks crackled from the severed wires of her interworkings dangerously close to the flammable liquid. "Oh, dear..."

And so Obi-Wan also risks causing a fire, mostly because he?s not really paying attention to what?s going on with the droid now. Like I said, in the thick of things, poor young Obi-Wan can get a little rash

To avoid the panicking customers, Obi-Wan leapt 20 feet into the air to the upper floor - pushing off and over the railing before landing gracefully on his feet. Lightsaber still ignited, he continued his pursuit of the blue menace.

?and once again, he doesn?t think it might be wise to extinguish his lightsabre during a risky jump. He?s just lucky to have come out of that with all of his limbs

I thought this bit was a nice example of directly Pre-TPM Obi-Wan and his inability to focus on the moment. It leads him to do some things that I think could be considered reckless.


------



Now, my excerpt...


Story: In the Shadow of the Chosen (From Episode II, part 1)

By: moi

Context: This is just post-TPM. The way I saw it, Obi-Wan would be training Anakin in some things, but Yoda would still want the boy to join in classes with some of the younglings to get caught up on the things Yoda usually teaches young Jedi.

What I was trying to acheive with this particular scene was expanding part of what I thought Obi-Wan might have meant by saying he thought he could train Anakin as well as Master Yoda. Of course there are several layers to that, but that's specifically why I put this scene in there- to illustrate his somewhat reckless attitude about how much responsibility he could assume (hopefully )

Constructive criticism is fine. You can just post it here.

?Padawan Skywalker is displeased,? the old Master said, sending another wave of anxiety through Obi-Wan. Then, Yoda continued, ?Impatient with the younglings is he.?

Some of the tension in Obi-Wan?s shoulders slacked. So the frustration was with his class, not with his master. ?His skills do exceed theirs,? he replied.

?But his training does not,? Yoda replied with a light rap of his gimmer stick. The comment made Obi-Wan bristle. ?Only just begun has his instruction,? the old Jedi added a little more gently.

?Perhaps he would learn more quickly were his lessons individual,? Obi-Wan suggested, hesitating before adding, ?and were I allowed to teach him.?

Obi-Wan had expected Yoda to be thrown off by the bold statement, but the small Jedi closed his eyes and shook his head as though he had been expecting it. ?Young Obi-Wan,? he rasped, ?always so quick are you to decide. Forgotten, have you, the importance of pat

 

Hey, I guess my excerpt worked better for this than I thought it would. lol!

All right, just the fact that he rushes on in instead of taking the time to probe what?s going on in the room or something is evidence of the headstrong attitude Qui-Gon speaks of him having at this time. I think at this point near the end of being a padawan, Obi-Wan *is* wise when it comes to things that he has time to think about. But when he gets into that kind of combative, battle-ready mode, he loses some of his wits That?s probably the unifying v. living Force thing, huh?

I think it's more that young Obi is action/adventure boy, and has sort of an impetuous side when he sees some action/adventure on the horizon. While older Obi has decided he's getting "too old for this sort of thing". lol Thinking again, this does actually reflect nicely the Yoda/Ben/Luke conversation in ESB because I do think young Obi has a little of that "oh, cool! Time to kick some butt!" attitude to him... as seen in the duel and this scene.

I found this bit of irony pretty funny So it?s ok for you to slice up the droid to protect yourself, but not for someone else to snatch up an innocent droid, Obi-Wan? Uh huh. Just try talking your way out of this one

lol! What? It was being used as a weapon! He had to protect himself. it's not like he cut off somebody's arm... *cough*

?and once again, he doesn?t think it might be wise to extinguish his lightsabre during a risky jump. He?s just lucky to have come out of that with all of his limbs

lol! Confidence or arrogance here? Hmm... well if he'd cut something off it'd be arrogance but since he didn't we'll just say his confidence he could do the stunt is why he didn't extinquish the lightsaber. [face_rolleyes]

A long, resigned breath proceeded the old Jedi?s inevitable concession. ?Teach the boy, you may. But,? he jabbed a cautionary finger up at the young man, ?careful you must be to leave nothing out. Of great importance are principles, not skills alone.?

I'm not sure I see recklessness in your excerpt really, maybe you can clarify for me. Although Yoda gives Obi-Wan a hard time, I'm not sure that it's totally called for and perhaps has done more to make the young knight feel insecure in his abilities than make him a better teacher.

On the other hand, I do see that you are setting up Obi-Wan as perhaps being more literal and result oriented... I don't know if I'm explaining this right. What I mean is he seems to be here impressed by Anakin's raw talent, and seeking to teach him the sort of physical training (like the katas) but is in danger, because of his personality, of leaving out some of the more personal mind and heart training that someone like Qui-Gon probably would have been more likely to give him. That, I suppose could be seen as a little reckless to think he could train as well as Qui-Gon or Yoda but I don't necessarily see that totally as an inexperience thing, but more of a personality thing, because let's face it some people are naturally good teachers and some have to work at it. Sorry if I'm rambling.

sg

 

I think it's more that young Obi is action/adventure boy, and has sort of an impetuous side when he sees some action/adventure on the horizon.

Well, yeah, I think there's just this general thing with young men to be excited by adventure. Obi-Wan by the time of TPM obviously thinks a lot more about things than some of his peers probably do, but when it comes to the chance to put fighting skills into practice... dude. Cool Perhaps one of the points Obi-Wan is making in ESB is that almost all young men are like that and it doesn't necessarily indicate they won't be sensible adults (since Obi-Wan is a pretty sensible adult )


I'm not sure I see recklessness in your excerpt really, maybe you can clarify for me.


Sure, I understand how it would be hard to make that kind of connection. Unfortunately I kind of suck at succeeding in conveying what I'm trying to a lot of the time Let me refer to what you said here:

Although Yoda gives Obi-Wan a hard time, I'm not sure that it's totally called for and perhaps has done more to make the young knight feel insecure in his abilities than make him a better teacher.

The thing with this whole part of SotC is that you're seeing everything from Obi-Wan's perspective, but you're not necessarily supposed to agree with him on everything. I tried to write it so that what people actually say to him and do could be, from an objective standpoint, quite logical and reasonable. Yet we're 'hearing' all of Obi-Wan's thoughts on things so as readers we start to interpret things that way. So you're kind of supposed to think 'Man, Yoda's out of line', but it's kind of my hope that some people might also step back and say, 'I don't know, maybe Yoda has a point.'

Personally, I sympathise with Obi-Wan's feelings but I think Yoda has a point. Obi-Wan makes a split second decision to take Anakin out of the younglings' class because Anakin's having a tough time. But perhaps, in the long run, the best thing would have been to use that experience to help build a better sense of patience and understanding with others. Yoda realises that Obi-Wan is capable of teaching Anakin these things, but thinks it might not be the best idea. I wanted Obi-Wan to not have that in mind before this conversation and to just make that decision on the spot.

It's not the kind of physical recklessness one usually thinks of. But I see that in TPM, because of his promise to Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan automatically sets himself on training Anakin, not really thinking about how he's going to do this. Since the literal definition of recklessness is doing something without thinking about the possible consequences (for all invovled in this case), I think that counts. This was just trying to show an extension of that, and in the following story I tried to bring up Anakin's difficulties in a peer learning enviroment as a way to show the results of that un-thought-out (is that a word?) decision.

But I also realise that my intentions as an author might not translate too well to the readers. Because I'm pretty sure almost no one felt the way I wanted them to about that... I'm not even going to start on how I thought people were supposed to feel about Ersha That subject, though, I have planned to explore in future stories of the series.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

NEW TOPIC!

In what ways do you think Obi-Wan shapes Anakin as a Jedi? As a person? How does Anakin view Obi-Wan? As a father, like he says in AotC? What are some instances of Obi-Wan's teaching styles from the films that might be expanded upon in fics?

 

What a rousing first week of discussion Seriously, though, I know a lot of people have been busy lately and/or out of town for the long weekend (like myself). We might consider letting this discussion go an extra week before excerpts. We'll have to see.

I'm going to give some thoughts on these questions:



In what ways do you think Obi-Wan shapes Anakin as a Jedi?

I think there are positives and negatives to this. The positives would be that Obi-Wan himself is obviously a paragon of a Jedi (at least as the current system of theirs defines it ). He's thoughtful, powerful, usually able to restrain himself... so basically, he provides for young Anakin a kind of glowing image of these positive aspects.

However, because Obi-Wan is the model Jedi, he adheres strictly to a code that is foreign to Anakin. And not only foreign, but likely to be seen as somewhat oppressive and wrong by the former slave. So while young Anakin probably aspires to be a great Jedi skill-wise, I'm pretty sure he doesn't care to follow in Obi-Wan's footsteps in regard to the Code.

Having Obi-Wan around to remind Anakin of some of the mistakes he makes and to kind of reign the boy in is a good thing, IMHO. An overly indulgent master would let the boy grow too powerful without enough control. Unfortunately, Anakin is one of those types who the more you squeeze him, the more he slips through your fingers (ha! *eats clever cookie*). Initially, Obi-Wan doesn't really know this about the boy and probably ends up chalking it up to teenage rebellion once it comes to that.

But I believe there are some things Obi-Wan just doesn't know how to teach Anakin about being a Jedi. Obi-Wan seems to be the kind to lecture, and Anakin doesn't learn well that way at all. He probably hears that tone and just shuts it out. Unfortunately, Obi-Wan is too inexperienced and proud to realise that he's probably the one who needs to change the teaching style to fit Anakin, not the other way around. It doesn't do to shove a square peg into a round hole, or in this case, to shove a round apprentice into a square teaching enviroment




As a person?

I'm not sure Anakin sees a difference between who he is as a person and who he is as a Jedi. He lets his person seep into his 'work' a lot more than Obi-Wan would like, I'm sure. He actually lets himself be a person more, too So I'm not sure you can really disconnect the two very easily.

I will say that I think Anakin was approaching the age where kids kind of start to 'find themselves' when he becomes a Jedi in TPM. So putting him in a strict enviroment with a strict guardian probably helped breed rebellion in him. Not that he wouldn't have been somewhat rebellious (aren't all teens?), but I think he would have done better at becoming a more balanced, stable person had he not been put into a situation where both sides were probably uncomfortable and where his mentor really didn't know what to do except follow the rules as strictly as possible. Anakin probably would have needed more of this attitude later in his teens, but early on I think he needed to be eased in more.

Also, the fact that Obi-Wan doesn't seem to believe Anakin is the Chosen One is a double edged sword. It leads him to try to treat Anakin fairly... but it probably also makes Anakin feel like he always has something to prove to Obi-Wan.



How does Anakin view Obi-Wan? As a father, like he says in AotC?

I don't think Anakin's lying when he says that. In fact, I think he's telling the honest truth and that it probably worries Obi-Wan a lot. Now, obviously in the beginning of their relationship, they didn't know each other at all and there would have been a warming period. I'm not one to think that Obi-Wan was all gushy and whatnot off the bat... or really ever. I think there were definitely instances and circumstances that called for it, but overall I think Obi-Wan is the loving but firm type. A kind of old-fashioned father who doesn't really like to show his emotions, which pretty much fit

 

I'll get back to this more, I'm sorry. I've been on vacation but I've been doing all kinds of other stuff (like housecleaning) to keep me busy. On top of that, I fell yesterday and hurt my wrist and shoulder a little - making typing not all that easy/painless.

Anywho I did want to say, I would actually like to have the topics be month long, with perhaps excerpts the last week, this gives plenty of time to discuss. What do you think, solojones?

sg

PS: I'll post more on the topic later today...

 

It might depend on the topic, but for one as broad as this one, defintiely. That sounds like a fine plan to me I know a lot of people have been out of town so don't feel bad. I remember when I almost broke my hand too, and typing then was *not* fun.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

In what ways do you think Obi-Wan shapes Anakin as a Jedi?

Well, I think you hear some echoes of Obi-Wan in Anakin in AOTC--like in his line to Padmé, "Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested of us." Both the line and the delivery are a bit reminiscent of Obi-Wan. I wouldn't be surprised if Hayden Christensen was deliberately invoking a bit of Ewan's Obi-Wan delivery there, since we know HC "cribs" from other Star Wars movies for clues on how to deliver lines.

We'll get a fuller picture of Anakin the mature Jedi in RotS, but but thus far, I think we see the greatest evidence of Obi-Wan's training in Vader the Sith rather than Anakin the Jedi.

The Anakin we've seen is emotional, impulsive, and undisciplined. He's snippy with authority figures, and he tends to whine when things don't go his way. I'm sure this is stuff Obi-Wan desperately wants to train out of him. Well, by the time we meet Vader in ANH, the whiny, undisciplined stuff is gone. You could argue that he's emotional, I guess, but he's still a pretty cool customer for someone who stands around intoning "Give in to your anger."

Ironically, Vader is everything Obi-Wan has worked for years to get Anakin to be--with the small difference of his being on the wrong side of the Force. No wonder Obi-Wan declared the human part of him dead. It must've been easier that way.

Also--I'm not sure we've seen Obi-Wan do anything close to that classic Vader finger waggle ("And if you do that one more time, Tarkin, I'm sending you to your room") but it seems like something he would have picked up from Master Obi-Wan.

How does Anakin view Obi-Wan? As a father, like he says in AotC?

I'd say so . . . and I think that Obi-Wan looks on Anakin as the Jedi equivalent of a son. I say "equivalent" because I'm not sure there is anything in RL that exactly corresponds to the Master/Padawan relationship. There's a really strange mixture of connotations in there, of parent, teacher, commanding officer, and spiritual advisor. Now you have to imagine all that within the context of a culture that supposedly values both compassion and emotionlessness (is that even possible)?

I don't think that there's somehow a "better" category of "son" in Obi-Wan's mind that Anakin doesn't fit into because of Jedi restrictions. If Obi-Wan has truly been at the Jedi Temple since infancy, he's probably as hazy on parent/child relationships as we are on Master/Padawan relationships. I think he loves Anakin enough to give him the best stuff he's got--but that "stuff" may not look the way Anakin has in mind, since he was raised by a parent for the first 9 years of his life.

So if the intent behind the gift matters more than the gift itself, then yeah, Obi-Wan absolutely loves Anakin as a son. If you leave intent out of it, then he loves him like a . . . something we don't really have an eqivalent for. A Jedi Master, I guess. Whatever that means. Personally, I think Anakin would have preferred to be loved in a more classically parental way--the way Shmi loved him.

What are some instances of Obi-Wan's teaching styles from the films that might be expanded upon in fics?

Don't have a lot of time left for this one, but I like the idea that Obi-Wan's unwittingly training Anakin for Sithhood by instilling discipline in him without fostering a deep commitment to Jedi ideals. Not that he doesn't try--it just obviously ain't working.

 

Man, we all must have gotten lives or something. I wish we could get some more people involved here, but alas...

Well, I think you hear some echoes of Obi-Wan in Anakin in AOTC--like in his line to Padmé, "Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested of us."

One of the things I plan on doing before I write the next part of SotC (where Anakin is 16), is to watch AotC playing close attention to the way Anakin phrases things. It will probably help just to read the script, too. Because something I've noticed at the edge of my mind is that, for all his rebelliousness, he still doesn't sound like a normal 19 year old in AotC. Growing up with the Jedi and with Obi-Wan, he's adopted some maxims of the Order and somewhat more formalized speech.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hayden Christensen was deliberately invoking a bit of Ewan's Obi-Wan delivery there, since we know HC "cribs" from other Star Wars movies for clues on how to deliver lines.

I wouldn't be, either. That's another thing I really need to pay close attention to the next time I watch AotC.

You could argue that he's emotional, I guess, but he's still a pretty cool customer for someone who stands around intoning "Give in to your anger."

He has come to really value discipline on some levels, hasn't he? But he still has never learned not to indulge oneself in his anger. That's why he's a Sith, afterall. But I do see what you mean in him becoming more like Obi-Wan, only the flipside.

Not to ram the MBTI thing down anyone's throats too hard, but I made an interesting observation. Completely independent of one another and at different times, I evaluated the personalities of Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Vader. It turned out that Obi-Wan and Vader have the same personality according to how I view them. Anakin has a very different personality, but his personality type, when angry, was described as being a dark version of the type I view Obi-Wan as. He embraces all the more negative qualities of Obi-Wan (being overly curt, determined, arrogant, etc). Coincidence? Possibly... but I like to think that it means I have a grasp on the characters or something. Probably not

No wonder Obi-Wan declared the human part of him dead. It must've been easier that way.

I seriously think that a lot of it was Obi-Wan couldn't psychologically deal with believing the Anakin he really cared about might be in their somewhere suffering all this time under neverending anger and pain.

Also--I'm not sure we've seen Obi-Wan do anything close to that classic Vader finger waggle

Yeah, I could definitely picture it. Although I prefer to call it the classic Harrison finger waggle. I can't count how many films he envokes that gesture in, but he has this perfect, "Not one more word or I'm going to stab you in the heart with my index finger" look on his face and way about him when he does it. There's an instance in ESB.

I'm not sure there is anything in RL that exactly corresponds to the Master/Padawan relationship.

Almost certainly not in modern western culture. Otherwise... hmmm, I don't know. It might be interesting to look into that and kind of see where the influence for that whole system might have come from. Because it definitely does create some weird paradoxes that make it a strange relationship. But still, especially for someone who grew up with a mother, I think a Master would be considered like a father in Anakin's eyes.

I think he loves Anakin enough to give him the best stuff he's got--but that "stuff" may not look the way Anakin has in mind, since he was raised by a parent for the first 9 years of his life.

I definitely agree. But do you think this means all Jedi Masters are this way, or do some really grasp the relationship as more of a familial bond do you think? And if so, would someone like that have been a better master for Anakin?

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

up

 

Okay, time for a new topic and a fresh start. This time we are accepting excerpts at any point during the topic's discussion. Just please don't post an excerpt and leave though, please try to add to the conversation.

Anyway, new topic is one that is close to my heart lately - Obi-Wan's family! I'm planning out a prequel involving this very subject right now, and even though I have ideas of what I'm going to do, I'd love to hear more opinions/speculation on what Obi-Wan's parents might have been like, etc... And who knows, maybe it'll inspire some of you to write your own prequel version of who they are, how they met, etc. Remember we're not talking about EU here, just seeing what we can come up with based on the films.

Here are some questions to get us started.

Is the way he is due more to nurture (the Jedi) or nature (genetics)? What personality traits do you think Obi-Wan shares with his parents?

Do you see Obi-Wan's parents as coming from royalty, upper class, middle class, lower class or do you think it could be any of the above?

Why do you think they gave Obi-Wan to the Jedi to raise? Did they consider it an honor or did they have no choice?

Has Obi-Wan ever met his family/parents?

What would a sibling of Obi-Wan's be like? If raised a Jedi? If raised by his parents? Are there personality traits you think they'd probably share with Obi-Wan?

Lastly, this is a casting challenge. Who would you cast in the following parts if you were making a movie about Obi-Wan's family today?

Father (old)
Father (young)
Mother (old)
Mother (young)
Sister(s)
Brother(s)

that's all.

sg

PS: Here's the info about posting excerpts, if anyone has any they'd like to share.

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Story R

 

Is the way he is due more to nurture (the Jedi) or nature (genetics)? What personality traits do you think Obi-Wan shares with his parents?

~Considering he came to the Jedi as a young child, I'd say it has much more to to due with nurture. The Jedi way of life is all he knows.

~I doubt he shares any personality traits with his parents. His life and character have been shaped by the Jedi, by what he learned in the Temple and from Qui-Gon. If he shares traits with anyone, I think it would most likely be with Qui-Gon. Again, the Jedi are the only thing he knows. There really isn't any reason for him to share anything with his biological family other than physical traits.


Do you see Obi-Wan's parents as coming from royalty, upper class, middle class, lower class or do you think it could be any of the above?

~Could have been any of those, you just don't know. I've always pictured Obi-Wan as having come from a loving, caring middle-to-lower-class family that simply wanted more for their son than they were able to provide for him. The Jedi gave them that chance.


Why do you think they gave Obi-Wan to the Jedi to raise? Did they consider it an honor or did they have no choice?

~Like I said above, I think they probably wanted more for Obi than they could give him so they gave him up willingly to the Jedi.


Has Obi-Wan ever met his parents/family?

~Based on what we know of the Jedi and ther rules, I'd say no he's never met them, and isn't likely to ever meet them. Meeting ones parents and family for the first time would most likely form a bond, an attachment--something forbidden for a Jedi.


What would a sibling of Obi-Wan's be like? If raised a Jedi? If raised by his parents? Are there personality traits you think they'd probably share with Obi-Wan?

~If a sibling of Obi-Wan's existed, whether they were raised by the Jedi or their parents, I don't think they'd necessarily share any personality traits. If rasied a Jedi, they would most likely exhibit similarities to their own Master, or their parents if they wer raied by them.


Casting challenge

father (old): Sean Connery
father (young): James Marsden
mother (old): Constance Towers
mother (young): Reese Witherspoon
sister(s): he wouldn't have a sister
brother(s): Jude Law

 

JediMaster_Jen and sg all in one :



Considering he came to the Jedi as a young child, I'd say it has much more to to due with nurture. The Jedi way of life is all he knows.

I think it can pretty well be substantiated that children come to the Jedi very young. In AotC we see the younglings, who are about 4 or 5 I'd say. So it's reasonable to think that Obi-Wan has been a Jedi pretty much all of his life.

However, I'm not sure I can completely agree with this comment:

There really isn't any reason for him to share anything with his biological family other than physical traits.

I know there are personality traits I share with my parents, and they aren't things I learned. Sure, I think a person's eviroment growing up can influence to what extent your personality traits manifest themselves. But I think some things are just the way you are.

For instance, my dad has a really explosive temper, and I definitely got that from him. Instead of bottling things up like my mom and brother, we tend to be vocal about what makes us angry. This isn't something I learned, because had I learned it, why shouldn't I have learned my mom's way of temperment? No, I think there are some genetic predispositions that help determine our personalities. So I think Obi-Wan might have traits in common with his parents, even if he's never known them.

Now as to what traits specifically... well, I think it would be valuable for us to first ask ourselves the question:

What parts of Obi-Wan's personality do you see as being caused or enhanced by having grown up a Jedi?

I'll answer that myself when I have a bit more time


Do you see Obi-Wan's parents as coming from royalty, upper class, middle class, lower class or do you think it could be any of the above?

Hm, like Jen, I'm not sure you can determine that. I think a lot of writers who have alluded to or written about Obi-Wan's family tend to write them as upper class. Perhaps this is because we tend to view Obi-Wan himself as a little posh. Now, I think that's because he was brought up a Jedi combined with his predisposition to being a bit of a snob

I think you could place his parents in any class, really. In this vig of mine I'm working on, they're middle class, loving, basically as Jen described them. However, I had this story idea quite a while ago, which I'd like to write but know I probably won't. My idea was to contrast Obi-Wan with his family, which would be new to both him and the readers probably. The idea was that his mom was this kind of on and off alcoholic, a single mom to a sibling of his, and that she didn't know who his dad was. I don't know, I just liked the idea that his family might be very different than he might have envisioned them to be, and that meeting them might teach him something more of understanding and humility.

Why do you think they gave Obi-Wan to the Jedi to raise? Did they consider it an honor or did they have no choice?

In my first theory, they thought it was the right thing to do because he was gifted. Of course it was hard for them and they always remembered him and all. In my second theory, however, his mom was kind of relieved that he was gifted enough to be a Jedi because she wasn't capable of raising him at the time. However, deep down as I would think most any mother would, she regretted it later.

Based on what we know of the Jedi and ther rules, I'd say no he's never met them, and isn't likely to ever meet them.

Trying to get at this from a film perspective for SotC, I kind of took this same route. The only mention of Obi-Wan's family is that he doesn't know them and feels this is normal for a Jedi. I took that line because of the Jedi issues with attachment, but mostly to contrast with Anakin's view of family. I don't think it's impossible that Jedi have the chance to meet their family. Even if just for the fact that the parents would likely want to know what had become of their children. I do think it's possible that, once someone i

 

solojones~Constance Towers is currently on a soap opera (General Hospital-my favorite). She's a film veteran--and one of my favorites. She has this almost royal bearing in her acting--no matter the type of charater she's playing.

Is Obi-Wan accent the accent of his family or of whoever raised him as a Jedi child?

I'd have to say he probably acquired his accent in the Temple. Children learn their speaking patterns and the like by listening to the sounds in their environment. His speach patterns and accent would match what he grew up hearing.

Who would you pick to play an even younger version of Obi-Wan?

Well, how much younger? Obi-Wan as a teen--I'd have to say David Gallagher. He currently plays the character of Simon Camden on the popular WB show 7th Heaven.


Younger than that? Hmmm. I have no ideas at all.

 

See, I'm not sure how early on kids learn accents, though. If Obi-Wan had already learned to speak before he was brought to the Temple, would his accent change any? Hmm...

That's an interesting choice, and not bad. Some people I thought of were Max Pirkis (splendid job in Master and Commander) for young teenaged Obi-Wan or Jeremy Sumpter (Peter Pan)... except Jeremy looks *just* like this kid I know But I think he looks the part of Obi-Wan quite well.

Ok, that was a little off the tangent of Obi-Wan's family. Sorry. Just something that came to mind. Redirect as needed

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

I've never been able to figure out how the Jedi are all supposedly raised in the same environment, but Mace Windu ended up with an American accent, Obi-Wan ended up with a British/Scottish+fake British accent, Qui-Gon got an Irish+fake British accent, and Yoda talks like who-knows-what. Back when we all thought Obi-Wan and Uncle Owen were brothers, and most of us assumed that Jedi training began at some point rather later than drooling infancy, I was *really* confused. (Incidentally, I haven't had a chance to watch my OT DVDs yet . . . how did they fix that continuity problem? Did they just cut around the line?)

And *are* there other Jedi Temples, by the way? They talk about the one on Coruscant as if it's the only one, although I guess it would be logical to assume the Jedi have secondary bases somewhere else.

I also actually want to answer the family question, but I haven't had time.

 

Opie (yes, that's you. Don't question it)-
That line was never in the movies. It was only in the novelization of RotJ. You must have hallucinated it in, just like I did with extra scenes that were never in Puss n Boots as a child

I believe there are other Jedi Temples. Isn't that what the Temple thing on Yavin that they've converted into a base is supposed to be? I know there are EU answers for this, but even looking at film, I would *assume* that there were other Temples. Otherwise, there aren't very many Jedi and they all have to launch from one place. That would have something to do with accents. You could theorize that the Brits are from the Coruscant Temple and the Americans from Yavin or something.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Eh, makes sense . . . although somehow I like to think of *the* Jedi Temple as being the only significant one . . .

And you're sure that line was never in ROTJ? It's in Blueharvest.net's screenplay . . . I'll have to check my original version of ROTJ when I get home. It's possible that the line went bye-bye back when the SE editions came out. After the weirdly tiny, yet narratively useless, Jabba in ANH, I was too scared to see the SE editions of any other film. I've got 'em all on DVD now, though, so I guess I'm committed to actually watching "Jedi Rocks" . . .

Then again, I could have hallucinated the line entirely, as you say. I've done that before . . .

 

I believe the Corellian Jedi have their own Temple in Corellia, along with their own rules (including not forbidding marriage). Apparently Corellian Jedi like to do their own thing.

I'll get back to this more this week... like the casting. Yes, I have been planning on Judy Dench being Obi-Wan's mother in Episode III, I just think she's perfect for it.

sg

 

ophelia, I've only seen the SEs *once* and that was in theatres. Until these DVDs, I've always only had the O-OT. I can assure you that no line about Ben and Owen being brothers ever made it into the movie. I also have the annotated screenplay right here that confirms it.

My diagnosis is that you've spent too many hours writing that wonderful novel of yours. It's fried your brain I understand, though. I always think deleted scenes I've written or read are happening in the films when I watch.

Rach

 

sj: Opie?
















And yeah, you're right--hallucinated it. I have the oldest, grainiest, gnarliest version of ROTJ imaginable, and it ain't on there, so it must have never been anywhere--except my head and the cutting room floor.

I just had to watch the same scene on the new DVDs, just for comparison, and damn! You can actually see stuff on those! This weird light-colored blobby shape on Yoda's wall, which I'd always kind of assumed was a window, instead appears to be some kind of lumpily polygonal Plexiglas paperweight.

I don't know what I think of the new Yanni-wok ending song, but I have to admit, it's better than the "yub nub" thing. I'm as hard-core a SW addict as they come, and that song was awful.

Somewhat to my disappointment, but not really to my surprise, I find that I can't see my characterization of Obi-Wan at all in ROTJ Ghosti-Wan. At the very end, though, when the new Hayden Anakin appears, he looks down at himself like he's totally confused about A) materializing anywhere (I would be), and B) materializing like *that* (Dude, where's my armor?). After 40-some years and a 360-degree tour of both sides of the Force, he's still a dork. This convinced me that I hit *his* character bang on.

 

okay here I go... *cracks knuckles*

JediMaster_Jen

~I doubt he shares any personality traits with his parents. His life and character have been shaped by the Jedi, by what he learned in the Temple and from Qui-Gon. If he shares traits with anyone, I think it would most likely be with Qui-Gon. Again, the Jedi are the only thing he knows. There really isn't any reason for him to share anything with his biological family other than physical traits.

I do think some personality traits can be passed down - how those then develop as a person grows up can certainly change matters but I think there is genetic basis for personality. For instance, my mother swears I share some not exactly good personality traits of my grandmother (her mother in law), now I would never have seen this/learned this from grandma so I must have inherited it from her. Also, we raise Shetland Sheepdogs, our dogs are known for having an excellent temperment (friendly, not skiddish, etc) which is something not all Shelties have. Is it genetic or just how we raise them? I think a bit of both.

Has Obi-Wan ever met his parents/family?

~Based on what we know of the Jedi and ther rules, I'd say no he's never met them, and isn't likely to ever meet them. Meeting ones parents and family for the first time would most likely form a bond, an attachment--something forbidden for a Jedi.

I agree, although he will be meeting them in my fic when I get writing Episode III of TFTB. I did want to throw this other question out there though...

Do you think Obi-Wan has ever wanted to meet his parents? Why or why not?

Casting challenge

father (old): Sean Connery
father (young): James Marsden
mother (old): Constance Towers
mother (young): Reese Witherspoon
sister(s): he wouldn't have a sister
brother(s): Jude Law

no sisters? I like the casting otherwise. I'd put Gweneth Paltrow as a sister though.

solojones

What parts of Obi-Wan's personality do you see as being caused or enhanced by having grown up a Jedi?

I think the uptightness in general definitely. I think he became moreso because of Qui-Gon's more rebellious nature - so they sort of balanced each other. Sense of duty would also definitely be enhanced.

it's actually surprising that Obi-Wan is a bit callous towards Anakin and Jar Jar in PM (although at first Qui is callous to Jar Jar as well, poor Gungan ). it's surprising because the Jedi are supposed to value all life and yet there is behavior that makes it seem like they think they are really above others. Perhaps they are, but still they shouldn't be behaving that way.

I think it would be interesting for Obi-Wan to have a Jedi sibling, but they'd most likely be at another Temple. Otherwise, we probably would have heard about them or something in the films And plus I think the Jedi, if they took siblings in, would want to keep them separated mostly. As for if they were raised by his parents, I think that would depend on what his parents were like.

oh, this gave me a plot bunnie! though I'll probably never use it so I'll put it up for grabs. What if the fellow Jedi Obi-Wan checks the pulse on in the Geonosis Arena was actually his brother who he barely knew and yet still had a bond with.

Is Obi-Wan's accent the accent of his family or of whoever raised him as a Jedi child?

Well... you know you have situations where Mace doesn't have an accent, and Qui-Gon's is a little different, etc... but I wouldn't say that it's his family's because he'd have to have been with them until after he started speaking at least to pick up any of that. The best scenario I can think of it that the people who are caring for the younglings perhaps each have their own group up until a certain age (or perhaps at other Temples too) and the accents of the people who are spending the most time with them during those formative years are the ones that the children pick up.

Who would you pick to play an even younger version of Obi-Wan?

 

Oh, thought of another good candidate for Obi's mom...

Jennifer Ehle who you might remember as Elizabeth Bennett from the Pride and Predjudice with Colin Firth.

sg