Lit A question on Karen Traviss and her work(s)

Interesting - and the first thing that makes me sad that there wasn't an IC2, because I would have been quite happy with her with Altis & Co, and while I haven't read it, I believe that Scout ends the series still as a Jedi but also still with the Mandos? On the other hand I probably wouldn't have enjoyed her take on Altis & Co, so.

I dunno, I think I'm mostly just sad because I adore Scout. Scout and Ganner Rhysode, my two obscure EU babies. I was so, so sad to hear the 501st took the POV that she'd been agricorped and was considered useless, after the beautiful setup at the end of YR which was all about how Yoda wouldn't let that happen to her and how she'd finally stopped being afraid of it.

But I'm derailing the thread - apologies. I'm really just upset that Yoda didn't take Scout on as his own padawan, even though I know that would never, ever, ever have happened. *shakes fist*

 

I liked her take on Altis & Co in No Prisoners, at least.

 

The Traviss take on Altis had less to do with Altis, and everything to do with other Jedi. It was fairly aggressive in its stupidity.

And goodness, Scout joins Altis? Way to totally destroy the ending of YR - ie, her acceptance by the order's Grand Master. No, let's just say she failed anyway and put her off to the Jedi Traviss thinks she can accept.

 

There are times, not many, when it's a good idea to not read certain EU works i.e. Scout's fate!

 

Yeah but that happened already anyway (and yes, I'm upset about it). If it's a choice between Scout surviving O66 and becoming a Mando, or surviving O66 and at least sticking with being a Jedi, I'll take option 2 that at least more easily allows me to read (potentially) against the text and imagine that she didn't buy into the shavit that was going on around her and was going to stick with her ideals.

 

My read of the series is that, despite all their "awesome" spycraft, Kal and company didn't come close to figuring out Palpatine's true nature... and, like in the past, the Mandos got completely used by the Sith again. Also, considering that they never really interacted with any Jedi outside the few that they did - each one flawed or not representative of the Jedi Order - made me take any commentary on the Jedi with a large grain of salt, regardless of the author's views. I've always viewed the Mandalorians as pushy and arrogant, so they certainly acted in character to me on that score.

I would've liked to see the (implied) tie to Plett and one of the biggest remaining mysteries (from one of the most deceptively named SW novels) revealed. (Order 66 comes close, but Children of the Jedi I'm still more bitter about. Jedi Trial was aptly named, although the "trial" seemed to apply more to the reader than Anakin).

And having Scout butchered by Anakin like her friend wouldn't have been exactly a "happy" ending.

 

I've only read Hard Contact and the LOTF novels, but based on some tidbits from the LOTF novels and what people are saying here, it sounds like Traviss just didn't understand the Jedi. Not just their nature but their role as pawns in Palpatine's grand plan to restore the Sith to power.

 

I have to ask though, what went on around her? She fell in with a group of Mandalorians who were saving Jedi, past that she doesn't know much about their history. She doesn't know the inner workings of their group, she barely knows Kal Skirata at all.

Karen's OOU conclusion ideas are not canon, but even if they were does everyone dislike Callista so much that they wouldn't want Scout hanging around with her type?

For some reason I also don't remember the agricorps so if its there I'll need someone to show it to me. Do recall Ny telling Skirata that she liked to grow things and wasn't strong in the Force, which may be where the agricorps idea comes from while not equalling 'agricorps'. And even if the agricorps deal is what was intended(in going to Mandalore telling your hosts that you could help grow things might make you look useful) it could just be Scout trying to deflect attention in a galaxy that wants her dead.

I think a lot of potential exists for an author to pick her up and continue her story at this point.

 

IMHO, Kina Ha is being used to express the POV of the pre-Yoda Jedi. Sure, she didn't know Etain, but she would certainly have heard exactly what had happened

Where in the Bane Trilogy do we see Jedi routinely, even casually, Mind Tricking their way around? Contrast with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in TPM and AoTC. Also heed the warnings (expressed or implied) about the "Alter Mind" ability in the Thrawn Trilogy and "I Jedi".

Standards seem to have slipped!

As for Etain; she never had a family, thanks to her induction (and thought herself one mistake away from the AgriCorps, to boot) - so she went overboard a bit when she found a sort of family in Skirata and the Clones. That can happen with Adopted People where the Adoption doesn't 'take' but the Birth Family welcome them back.
IMHO she was at the point where all Clones were Darman's Brothers (and hence family). Wouldn't you step into the line of fire for your family?

She certainly didn't want either to kill the youngsters or to reveal that she was actually a Jedi herself - and may have thought that just getting in the way would be enough to make the youngster check the stroke; which it might have if not in a fear-fuelled panic.

What were they doing carrying Lightsabers around with them anyway, if they were supposed to be pretending to be non-Jedi? Isn't (aren't) the crystal(s) the only hard-to-replace part of the weapon? Very much easier to conceal than the whole thing.

As for LotF, does anyone know at what stage it was decided that Jaina would have to be the one to take down Jacen - and that she would, therefore, need an 'edge' of her own?

The Mando sequences make sense to me from that POV - Fett returns to Mandalore (as Mandalore) so he can be found. And we get to see the inscrutable 'guy everyone loves to hiss' with his helmet off, so to speak!

I wonder if there wasn't a intention to introduce a 'tamer' movement of Mandalorians - one that follows Venku's philosophy.

 

The AgriCorps is mentioned in "Yoda - Dark Rendevous" - it's a division for those who don't make the cut to get to 'Padawan' rank; usually because of lower strength in the Force. Getting assigned to the AgriCorps seems to have been regarded as somewhat shameful.

 

Didn't it appear even earlier than that, in the Jude Watson books?

The Jedi Path goes into more detail on the Jedi Service Corps- of which the Agricultural Corps is one.

 

Sorry, never read anything by that author!

 

I haven't read many of them either- but I vaguely remember someone mentioning it on the forum (possibly the temp forum).

EDIT: I've checked and it was in the second of the Jedi Apprentice books, the first Jude Watson book in that series (The Dark Rival) written shortly after TPM, and set during Obi-Wan's apprenticeship with Qui-Gon.

 

Rob - I like Callista just fine. I liked Callista back in the Bantam era, and I like her now. The shavit I was talking about was the Skirata clan school of morals and ethics, not the group of Jedi Callista belongs to. I didn't know til someone mentioned it on this thread she was even supposed to go off with Djinn Altiss rather than stick around as an Etain replacement with the Skiratas.

Frankly yes, I probably would dislike how Traviss would have chosen to write the Djinn Altiss group too (I don't know enough about how it was written in 501st to know for sure, but I probably wouldn't like it, no). But that wasn't what I was referring to. And as I said, I like Callista.

As to the agricorps thing, it seemed implied. Ny doesn't say she likes to grow things, he says she "helps" grow things and that "they thought she was a useless Jedi" in the same sentence, as if they're related. In Revelation, the Mandos talk about the AgriCorps as if they're aware of it as some terrible place failed Jedi are sent - which I would guess was Traviss referencing Scout. Sure, we can assume that she's lying to stay safe (and that is what I choose to believe), but to claim that Scout suddenly developed an appreciation of gardening between YDR and IC501st and the reference was completely unrelated seems like a ridiculous assertion. Frankly, I'm completely certain that Traviss did intend for Scout to have been put in the AgriCorps, which I think is a really tragic and destructive misunderstanding of the point of her character arc in YDR. But it's at least possible to read it differently, and - much as I do with the Sith stuff about Vergere - that's what I choose to do.

 

Sorry, meant I don't remember the agricorps being mentioned as it relates the Scout in Order 66 or 501st. As Bec mentions Dark Rendezvous sets up that Scout is not going to the agricorps so a mention that she was there would be problematic, I just don't remember seeing it specifically mentioned.

 

At best the agricorps is a theory though, a theory based on the words of someone who barely knows Scout.Even if true it would be very easy to work around. I doubt Traviss had any notions about Scout when she was writing Revelation.

And yes, I was talking about Kal's group as well. What does Scout really know about them? She doesn't have the knowledge that we have, she enters the picture late in the series and sees a group of Mandlaorians saving Jedi and clones. There is nothing infront of her face to make her think that the Skirata Clan are horrible people.

As for Altis's sect I pretty much agree with the critique that they were written as Jedi that Karen Traviss could like. No Prisoners is where we see the most of them. Its not my favorite KT novel(probably my least favorite) but it was well liked by a number of people who don't usually enjoy Karen's work.

 

You're telling me this isn't a clear allusion to the Agricorps? Okay, fine, your mental gymnastics are far better than mine.

 

She did loose her Master in YDR, and was shown that she wasn't a patch on Whie in the Force department (although she was acting far more maturely!). I, too like Scout!

Perhaps she made the request herself?

You pays your money and you takes your choice!

 

The other reason for their differences from the mainstream Order- it had already been established in Children of the Jedi that Callista remembers her early life- solution- make a Jedi faction that doesn't insist its recruits be infants.

 

Scout gets sent to the Agricorps after all? Man... that's a bit depressing.

But unlike the boy, I suppose she survived.

Yep, Jude Watson created it. I was actually pleasantly surprised to see something that obscure referenced.

 

"Not every member of the Jedi Service Corps failed to become a Padawan. Many Knights, Masters, and Padawans chose to work with the Corps because of their special talents..." - The Jedi Path

Scout was already a Padawan.

My personal theory? That her friend Whie, with his prophetic visions, convinced her to go to the AgCorps to get her away from the Temple (IIRC, Whie had already predicted his own demise).

 

That's probably the best solution for all involved

 

Yeah but in YDR she had been a padawan, her master died and the opening situation was Scout afraid that if she didn't find a new master, she'd get sent to the Agricorps. Clearly this is something that can happen to padawans who lose their masters and don't find new ones. At the end of YDR, Scout is again without a master.

So yeah, we can explain it that way. Or we can explain that she was lying to the Mandos to make herself seem less important (my preferred option). But her status as a former padawan doesn't necessarily mean she chose that option, per her situation at the start of YDR. And we are retconning something that's very clear - I believe - in its implication, because we don't like it.

 

Star Wars EU in a nutshell

 

Yeah, I remember the same . A very good theory!